Reel movement in plastic Paterson-style tanks

[Poohblah]

This is the 3rd or 4th time this has happened to me, so I feel I should ask about it. Sometimes, when developing roll film in plastic tanks, the reel slides on the center post to the top of the tank where it stays through the course of development and fixing. This causes uneven development because the developer no longer covers all of the film even though I use the recommended amount of solution. This means that I have to crop the top of the neg where it is underdeveloped, which, of course, is very annoying. Does this happen to anybody else? Would switching to stainless steel solve the problem?

 

[ann]

we have been using these tanks for as long as they have been around and never have had that problem in fact the reels are a snug fit.

many people suggest loading a blank reel on top if your only doing one reel or there is a plastic collar that comes or should have came with the tank that you can place on the center post to hold the reels in place.

are you sure your putting even liquid in the tank , the bottom of the tank will give you the proper amount for specific number of reels and types, *just double checking*

you do mean patterson tanks? as that are the type i am talking about.

 

[mwdake]

What size film/reel/tank are you using.
With true Paterson tanks there should be a little spring collar that goes around the center post that you put on top of the reel; this stops teh reels from moving upwards when in the tank. Or depending on the film size and tank size you should have a second empty reel on top of the first.

 

[Jon Shiu]

You can wrap a rubber band around the column above the reel to stop any movement.

Jon

 

[fotch]

What size reel, what size tank. If using a single reel in a 2 reel tank that you invert, you need to find a way to keep the reel in place. Another reel, a rubber band on the core?

 

[Poohblah]

Thanks for the replies. I am using a 2-reel tank that fits 2 135 reels or 1 120 reel. This problem only occurs with 120 film, but that is only because the area left underdeveloped is the rebate/sprocket holes in the case of 35mm film. The bottom of the tank says 650mL for 2x135 or 590mL for 1x120. I have always used 650mL of solution regardless of what I am developing. Using the second reel as a spacer is not possible with 120 film and my tank did not come with a spring or any other kind of spacer. Should I just chalk it up to a cheap tank?

ninja'd. I'll try the rubber band trick, thanks!

 

[nworth]

The Paterson tanks were designed for twist type agitation using the included agitator rod, rather than inversion. It's true that you can use them with inversion agitation if (and only if) you keep the funnel in place, but you may have some problem with the solution not returning quickly to the bottom part of the tank.

 

[Bill Burk]

Paterson used to make a firm plastic c-shaped clip to remedy this known problem. Do you have that clip? It helps. But even with that clip, I would sometimes have the reel slip upwards during processing. Got in the habit of always loading two reels even if one was empty. Problem happened to me for two different reasons. Slippage for one, the other reason was Paterson tanks need more than 16 oz. to develop two rolls of 35mm. And since 16 oz. is a magic amount to mix up, I'd often forget that little fact. Of course the problem only affects my vintage irreplaceable images.

Switched to stainless steel and solved two problems at once. Uses a few ounces less chemistry and gravity holds the reels to the bottom of the tank. I still add empty reels if I'm doing an odd number of rolls.

 

[Bill Burk]

nworth, I think you might be right about that funnel not returning liquid fast enough. I always used inversion even though I had the agitator. I would also lose a lot of liquid even though the gray seal and lid were intact and properly seated.

 

[Jon Shiu]

the twisting stick is only for the first agitation. Inversion is used after that. Here are the instructions:
http://35mm-compact.com/manuels/paterson-uk.htm

Jon

 

[Wade D]

You can wrap a rubber band around the column above the reel to stop any movement.

Jon

I lost the little collar a long time ago and use the rubber band method.

 

[Obtong]

It sounds as if your reel is sliding p the centre column. If you have lost your C-shaped locking collar, try putting a second reel over the reel with the film. This will prevent the reel with the film from sliding up the tank. You can of course load and develop two rolls of film together.

I always measure my chemicals in metric or cc's. The British Fluid Ounce is larger than the US Fluid Ounce by about 4%. (There are 0.9608 US ounces in 1 UK ounce.) If you read off the UK ounces off the bottom of your Paterson tank, and then measure out that number using US ounces, you won't have enough chemical to cover the reel.

~Dom

 

[konakoa]

I've had the exact same thing happen with the same size tank. Add a small section of hardware store plastic pipe (1 1/2" diameter) to your tank as a spacer. Cut it about 1 3/4" long for 35mm, or 3/4" or so for 120. Place it on top of the reel/through the center post. The funnel holds the pipe spacer down when snapped on, and the reel can't slide up. Works perfectly!

 

[MattKing]

I've had the exact same thing happen with the same size tank. Add a small section of hardware store plastic pipe (1 1/2" diameter) to your tank as a spacer. Cut it about 1 3/4" long for 35mm, or 3/4" or so for 120. Place it on top of the reel/through the center post. The funnel holds the pipe spacer down when snapped on, and the reel can't slide up. Works perfectly!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but could you not use a plastic cannister for 35mm film with the bottom cut out and trimmed to length to do the same thing?

 

[Poohblah]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but could you not use a plastic cannister for 35mm film with the bottom cut out and trimmed to length to do the same thing?

You could use anything that does not interfere with the chemical processes. The rubber band seems like the best solution to me since it is easy and I can use it for any format of film, plus other users have done it and (I assume) had no ill effects.

 

[MattKing]

You could use anything that does not interfere with the chemical processes. The rubber band seems like the best solution to me since it is easy and I can use it for any format of film, plus other users have done it and (I assume) had no ill effects.

In fact, I too have used a rubber band for this, and it worked well. I wouldn't hesitate to do so again.

I've just found that rubber bands get brittle and break, or mysteriously disappear when you need them. So I can see the attraction of having something on hand that is both durable and designed for this single purpose.

After all, film cannisters seem to last forever .

 

[Cor]

I am a bit surprised that it happens, are you sure that the reels are made by Patterson? There are reels around made by other manufactures that perhaps are less thight than the Patterson reels. The volume in my tank are 300ml (I believe the bottom says 290 ml) and 500 ml (also a bit less on the bottom sign), which seems less than the amounts you describe. Are there different Paterson tanks around? I used to process 1 reel 35 mm in the 2-reel tank, without any problem. later I switched to put an empty reel on top in case of 1 film. It was supposed to reduce turbulence or something..can't say if it helped that way, but it doesn't harm either..

Best,

Cor

 

[Steve Smith]

I have the C shape collar but find that I need a rubber band wrapped around it as well in order to keep it in place.

If I could ever be bothered to do it, I could cut a piece of plastic pipe to length to work as a spacer. The problem is that I only ever think about it whilst processing film then forget about it again until the next time.


Steve.

 

[Poohblah]

I am a bit surprised that it happens, are you sure that the reels are made by Patterson?

plastic Paterson-style tanks

No, I am sure the reels are not made by Patterson.

 

[jp498]

There's a huge variety of companies that made patterson compatible stuff. Sort of like IBM compatible it is sometimes a misnomer and opportunity for things to be not quite the same. Patterson is definitely the best in terms of plastic quality, fit, leak resistance. If you don't want to cobble something together to address this, look for the genuine article which is fairly inexpensive used these days compared to buying new. I wouldn't be afraid of cobbling something together either.

 

[ann]

hm, interesting, never crossed my mind about using other than patterson reels; which certainly makes my experience different.

i have tested for the problem many talk about and could never understand how this could happen. With a patterson reel on the column i couldn't get the reel to move, even when banging it upside down, never budged. That certainly answers what we are doing vs where many folks have issues.

 

[Jon Shiu]

I don't think Paterson would include the clip or advise to use it in the instructions, unless the problem were real. I personally have had the problem, and I only use the original Paterson reels.

Jon

 

[Q.G.]

The same column and reel have been used in different generations of Paterson tank.
I have used (and still do) all sorts of Paterson tanks, and the reels do indeed move up the column, when you inverse the tank (which even with the latest, Big Funnel, type Paterson tank is the best way to agitate).
So it's not a Paterson vs. fake-Paterson issue.

Myself, i usually have reels stacked on top of each other, and then there's no problem.
But with a single reel set to 35 mm width, i do use the clip.
The cannister spacer suggestion is a good one.

 

[konakoa]

I have the most recent Paterson tanks and reels. If you store the reels on the center post in the tank, they can loose their, ah, grippy-ness with time. Some Paterson reels I had slid quite easily after a few years. I don't store reels in the tanks anymore. The plastic pipe spacer was an easy fix, chemical resistant and are very solid. 35mm film cannisters may be a bit too thin.

 

[wclark5179]

Just a thought.

If you use a tank that can hold two 120 reels (4 35mm) check to make sure the center plastic pipe you put the reel on is the correct length. Possibly a feller could use a smaller center pipe that holds say for one reel for a one reel tank and put it into a tank for two reels and the top of the center pipe would not come into contact with the lid and could float until it hits the lid.

Didn't ready all the posts, if someone else mentioned it sorry for the duplicate!

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