Redheads and IR film

kraker · Aug 31, 2007

So...

this weekend, there will be a big get-together of red-haired women from all over the world in my hometown (Dead Link Removed, also a small intro in English is available). Seems like a good reason to take one or two cameras into town. I will shoot some colour film (slides, most likely), but I would also like to try some B&W shots.

I was thinking of taking some SFX-200 just to see what happens to the hair (which, although called "red" is more commonly a shade of orange, the way I see it -- but then again, I'm colour-vision-impaired) and facial colour (they "usually" have a lighter skin, I believe??) of these redheads. Any idea on what I can expect when I try IR film + filter on this subject? Or without filter? Or any other suggestions? Regular B&W film with orange or red filter? I was also thinking of orthochromatic film, but I doubt I could lay my hands on that in time...

(P.S.: didn't know where to put this, but B&W film seemed like a good place. Moderators, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Marcust101 · Aug 31, 2007

Has a red head I'm appalled you don't know the tone of red heads skin, we do represent 7% of the Causian population you know.

Take a look at this website for more information http://gingerkids.org/

Best
Beligerent redhead

kraker · Aug 31, 2007

Marcust101,

I tried to be "politically correct", and I really didn't mean to insult anybody. Sorry if you feel appalled... And thanks for the link.

I guess my ignorance can be blamed on... Dead Link Removed. It means I'm a bit uncertain whenever I talk about colours...

edit: confused by your link... the FAQ, at some point, seems to confuse "Gingervitis" with "Gingivitis". :confused:

Now back to my original question: would SFX-200 be a nice film to try in this case?

Marcust101 · Aug 31, 2007

Lraker,

Sorry i was joking though that may not have come through on text. I find the Gingerkids link hilarious. It is a spoof site and not to be taken seriously. I can't help with your question though so I'll butt out and leave your question to the experts

Apologies for the confusion

Marcus

Mick Fagan · Aug 31, 2007

Kraker, earlier this year I photographed a very red headed young woman, complete with lots of freckles and the curliest hair I have seen in a long time.

I used Neopan 400 and no filter, I had a very pleasant true to life rendition of her.

Fitting a deep orange filter Hoya 0 (G) I then shot another roll.

The resulting pictures made her hair lighter, but most importantly to her, reduced, or almost eliminated, most of her freckles. She very much liked the orange filtered roll(s) even though she knew they were not quite her.

I didn't think of using SFX-200 even though I have some.

Like the website.

Mick.

Russ Young · Aug 31, 2007

I used to have a red-headed girl friend two decades ago and photographed her several times with KODAK high speed infrared film. Interestingly, her hair was unaffected by the spectral bandpass and was rendered fairly normal; however her freckles disappeared and her lips and aureolas very nearly disappeared. Her skin was depicted as marvelous marble stone.
Hope this might be helpful.
Russ

Robert Hall · Aug 31, 2007

Keep in mind that IR reflects off deeper layers of the epidermis, not the surface where most skin defects show. This will eliminate most skin imperfections. It can as well show underlying venous structures more prominently.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 31, 2007

I would be wary of shooting a redhead with IR film, if only because their skin is quite pale, and the venous marbling would be more likely to show. With the Kodak, not so much as the halation would help obliterate some of that. But with SFX, which I believe does have an anti-halation layer, it would be more likely to show. I shot some Konica IR of models, and in some cases they showed pronounced venous marbling, especially in the legs.

jd callow · Aug 31, 2007

Shooting red heads , especially those with freckles and blue eyes benefits very nicely from ortho film or pan film with a strong blue filter. This is basically the opposite of an IR film which I've never used on a redhead.

Antje · Aug 31, 2007

Marcust101 said:
Has a red head I'm appalled you don't know the tone of red heads skin, we do represent 7% of the Causian population you know.

Take a look at this website for more information http://gingerkids.org/

Best
Beligerent redhead

That is hilarious! Especially the part about the soul. Thanks a million for sharing this!

Antje

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 31, 2007

Where'd the bit about redheads being soulless come from? I'd never heard THAT particular myth before...

catem · Aug 31, 2007

I would add my voice to the caution over using IR for portraits of red-heads. I have a red-gold haired boy with not many freckles but fair, pale skin - I've taken innumerable pictures of him and his skin tends to marbling effect even without IR film (which I've never used with him) so I'd be wary of its effects.

dslater · Aug 31, 2007

TheFlyingCamera said:
Where'd the bit about redheads being soulless come from? I'd never heard THAT particular myth before...

Ummm - I think it actually came from a South Park episode.

catem · Aug 31, 2007

TheFlyingCamera said:
Where'd the bit about redheads being soulless come from? I'd never heard THAT particular myth before...

I forgot to say, as everyone knows redheads are special - especially when they turn up in the family when you least expect it (the gene is recessive - my own hair is slightly red but nothing like my son's)

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 31, 2007

I had a whole family of redheads I knew across the alley from me when I was a kid- all three girls, and the mom, were redheads with curly hair and freckles. They had the same street number as us, so we'd sometimes get their mail, and vice versa. It was quite a sight to see all four of them together around the kitchen table.

catem · Aug 31, 2007

Another thought - if my son were a very freckly redhead (as is one of his best friends) I wouldn't want to 'get rid' of the freckles, as they would be a part of who he is!

Taking pictures of redheads in colour - the more freckles the better - is very fashionable in the U.K., I've lost count of how many reheaded children I've seen as subjects of winning portrait prizes...

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 31, 2007

It's the revenge of the Celts, 500 years too late! If we can't have our freedom, we'll have all your kid photo prizes!!!!

catem · Aug 31, 2007

Yep - and I just looked it up on google - 40% of celts (our family comes into that category) carry the redheaded (or is it ginger in that case!) gene.
Thinks... must take some colour pics before it's too late (he's 9 in the Autumn)...

kraker · Aug 31, 2007

Antje said:
That is hilarious! Especially the part about the soul. Thanks a million for sharing this!

Antje

Finally time to read the stuff on that site properly, not that I'm at home, and now it's indeed more than clear, even without smileys, that this was not serious at all .

But as TheFlyingCamera already noted: the soulless myth, that's one I've never hear before... I guess, dslater, that's an episode of South Park I've missed.

As a more on-topic note... thanks for all replies; maybe just as an experiment I might run a roll of SFX through the camera, but in general it doesn't sound like the best idea; quite the opposite:
(I'm glad I asked .)

jd callow said:

Shooting red heads , especially those with freckles and blue eyes benefits very nicely from ortho film or pan film with a strong blue filter. This is basically the opposite of an IR film which I've never used on a redhead.

Click to expand...

Thanks John and others for the warning. Too bad I can't possibly lay my hands upon either ortho film or a blue filter before Sunday... Although... Hm, maybe I can borrow a blue filter from a friend...

jd callow · Aug 31, 2007

Use an 80a or 80b on pan film it won't work as well as a minus red and or minus yellow, but it will still make the freckles jump and the blue eyes haunting.

dslater · Aug 31, 2007

kraker said:
But as TheFlyingCamera already noted: the soulless myth, that's one I've never hear before... I guess, dslater, that's an episode of South Park I've missed.

Yes - in fact I think the South Park episode was written to spoof the ginger web site referenced above.

Cheryl Jacobs · Aug 31, 2007

Redhead here, too, though my hair is a very deep auburn rather than the lighter orangey reds (which my sister is.) I do have extremely pale skin, though, and the one time I tried making a self-portrait with IR, it was not a flattering look.

Part of the reason it was unflattering, though, is because my eyes are extremely dark brown, and the weird marbled white skin made me look dead. Yick.

- CJ

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 31, 2007

I found the possible origins of the soulless thing- although they explicitly make the connection in a South Park episode, there is historical precedent - red hair was often seen as a sign of posession by the devil or other association with witchcraft. Thus the "no soul" bit.

Robert Hall · Aug 31, 2007

Here are some examples...

My fair skinned boy...

http://www.roberthall.com/austin13a.jpg

My model friend with ortho...

http://www.roberthall.com/KyleeBlue.jpg

My model friend with IR...

http://www.roberthall.com/KyleeIR.jpg

Cheers

glbeas · Aug 31, 2007

One interesting effect of deeper IR is on dyed hair. The color mostly goes away. So a blonde or white haired person with hair dye seems to return to thier former glory in IR.

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