Red window and film choice

I have a couple of medium format folders from the 30ies that I love, because they are functionally down to basics, leaving decisions to me. I want to try Rollei Ortho 25 with them because it would be kind og historically correct and make the red window no problem. But that film is expensive. (And my experience with Rolleis backing paper lately is disgusting).

I compared the data sheets of some pancromatic black and white films to try to find the one with the least sensitivity into red. Ilford PANF seemed to be a candidate, but then I read someplace else that it fogs easily. So maybe not?

Any suggestions?

SalveSlog said:

Ilford PANF seemed to be a candidate, but then I read someplace else that it fogs easily. So maybe not?

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That has not been my experience using [120] Pan F+50 in a Zero Image 69 pinhole camera with (3) red windows.

OK, PDJ, thank you!

I have a couple of red window cameras, and they work well with Plus-X, T-Max 100 and T-Max 400,
I even have a pinhole camera that has clear glass (behind a flap) rather than red glass, and it works with those films plus Ektachrome E100G.
The backing paper is a good light block. What is more problematic is how faint the numbers are.

I use a bunch of pre 1940 folders with red windows and have never had any trouble with HP5+ in them.

I haven't had any fogging with Fomapan films in an Ica Icarette with a red window and a slider to keep it closed when not needing it.

I use dolders a lot, probably 60 to 70% of my photography is done with folders, and has been so for 15 years, most have red windows, but one, a Meopta, has clear plastic for the frame numbers, and one or two have the red window missing the red has been either removed or has broken, and I have yet to have any problem with fogging, with HP5+ which I use occonsialy or Fomapan 400 which is my main film, indeed, the only twice I havehad film fogged recently has been my fault and mine alone, once I was trying a new to me Microcord and didn't lock the back door properly, the second was with a new Ensignselfix 820, again for some reason I did not lock the door properly when I putin in the case, both badly fogged films, ( put those down to a senior moment) but I have never seen a film fogged due to a red window, missing or there

I have never had problems with cameras that has sliders, either! I was referring to my cameras with red windows and no slider. From the early 30ies. Mine are currently Ikonta 520 and Voigtländer Rollfilm.

Some of mind don't have sliders over the window either...

SalveSlog said:

I have never had problems with cameras that has sliders, either! I was referring to my cameras with red windows and no slider. From the early 30ies. Mine are currently Ikonta 520 and Voigtländer Rollfilm.

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all of my folders have sliders, 9 times out of 10 I forget to slide them, even with the couple that have lost the red window, and in full sun I never get fogging with 400 iso film

Used Portra 400, TMax 400, HP5 and XP2 through a folder (Zeiss Ikon Nettar) and had zero issues, despite not being particularly disciplined with sliding over the window.
As others have said the only problem I have is with seeing the numbers, I find Kodak easier with it's bold 'Kodak' before each number rather than Ilford's circles.

If you're worried about it, put some duck/gaffer/electrical tape over the window and peel it back when you need to advance the film

MattKing said:

What is more problematic is how faint the numbers are.

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My experience as well. You would think that would be an easy fix.

I concur with the other folder folks above. I intentionally left the slide open on one of mine with the window facing bright afternoon summer sun for about ten minutes as part of a series of light leak tests with 400 Tmax and saw no problem.

OK, all. Maybe I've just used the wrong films: Fomapan 100 and Rollei Superpan. The last one is not surprising, I know, because it's extra sensitive to red. I think the paper is the same with those 2 films. And that may be the real issue, then?

Arthurwg said:

My experience as well. You would think that would be an easy fix.

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I'm guessing that you haven't read through the long and numerous threads about Kodak's recent problems with wrapper offset.
More visible numbers means more ink which means more problems with wrapper offset - the transfer of ink to the adjacent emulsion, resulting in a change in film sensitivity in those areas, and resulting ghost images of the numbers and letters in your photos.
Many years ago Ilford was forced by this to make their numbers fainter. In recent years, after Kodak stopped their own backing paper production, they encountered serious wrapper offset problems, resulting in many damaged photos, suspension of production of certain films for an extended period of time, and much general angst.
Even after reducing the visibility substantially, current Kodak 120 film appears to still be susceptible to wrapper offset if storage conditions are less than recommended.
Backing paper is a real concern. The paper and printing industry has changed fundamentally since the heyday of 120 film. Harman/Ilford posted here several years ago that it cost them more to buy the backing paper for a roll of 120 than it did to manufacture the film, and that the minimum order requirements were a real problem.

I use a 1930s Zeiss Ikon folder frequently and other "red window" cameras occasionally.

I have used the following with no trouble

Ilford FP4+
Ilford HP5+
Fomapan 100
Fomapan 400
Rollei Retro 400
Kodak Tri-X Pan
Kodak Ektar
Lomo 400 colour negative

A small jeweller's inspection loupe helps me see the quite faint frame numbers through the small circular red windows on the ZeroImage 69 pinhole. Often the camera has to be turned around so a bit light can illuminate the scene to help. It is especially annoying in low light in the evenings, but then Pan F+ 50 is not the ideal film for such scenes with quite a bit of mental gymnastics involved with reciprocity. Never ever had problems with Fujfilm's E6 products in relation to backing paper/frame number visibility.