Record keeping when developing

Moose22 · Nov 3, 2021

What do you record when you develop film? (or make a print, I guess. Also good info).
How do you record it? (computer, notebook, something else)

I've started developing at home so this is beginner question, but I kind of want to get off to good practices.

My first few rolls I've knocked off the issues -- mostly water staining -- by changing only one thing on each roll. Now I have a process that "works" and should be repeatable, but the goal of course is to push or pull, or maybe further streamline the process, and as such looking back rather than remembering the one thing I changed 10 rolls ago seems mighty helpful. I know others have been able to give me really detailed info when I ask about a print or scan I like, so... let me know. What is your favorite way of record keeping?

Pieter12 · Nov 3, 2021

I only work with one developer--Rodinal. I used to keep notes on developing (time and dilution) with the negative sleeve. Once I established a norm, I only note it on the sleeve if there's some deviation. For prints, I use a steno notebook with notes about print size, cropping, lens and aperture as well as the times (I do split-grade printing) and any burning and dodging and associated factors for those, so I can reprint or when I go to make a final print from a work print. I really should compile that data and have it filed with the negative sleeve or the work print for easy access. But I don't. I have a stack of notebooks, dated and usually with post-it tabs all along the edges.

MattKing · Nov 3, 2021

I use a Kodak Darkroom dataguide, including the "development number" based calculator dial in it.
My negative holders include notes about camera, film, non-standard EI, location, date, developer, the "development number" I used.
The rest is standardized.

Bill Burk · Nov 3, 2021

I keep pages of lab notes, a blank notebook would serve as well. The best part when I re-read them is the ‘Issues’ section. If I were to redesign the pages I would make that half the page

Dave Krueger · Nov 3, 2021

Film developing: Roll index number, date, brief description of subject matter, film type and size, EI, developer, dilution, temperature, agitation (30 or 60 sec intervals). I record all that on the negative page and in a spread sheet. (I do not record the film size on the negative page since it's obvious)

Prints: Print date and number, print size, cropping info (if not full frame), aperture, exposure time (including preflash and any dodge/burn info), contrast filer(s) used, CYM dialed in (as neutral density filtration), High or Low light level, whether I used the 6x7 mixing box, paper type, lens used, developer, and toning time (almost everything is selenium toned at ~1:20). I record this on lined paper which is stored with the negative pages in a file cabinet.

If, instead of using my Chromega, I'm using my condenser enlarger, I record bulb wattage in lieu of CYM filtration and High/Low light level.

If I seem obsessive, it's because I am. It's the engineer in me. But, recording these notes in a kind of shorthand is very quick compared to the actual printing process and I do use the data for comparison purposes or if I make additional prints at a later time. Quite often I add the roll index number, after the fact, to the notes I might have made at the time I shot the film. That's in a separate notebook that I carry in my camera case.

Moose22 · Nov 3, 2021

Thanks for the ideas.

I'm going to have to think about it, but it is good to hear what people are doing. I'm leaning toward analog because I do it in the kitchen. Best to make notes immediately, as I go. Else I'll get lazy and never do it. If I ever get to a point where I print, the last thing I want in a darkroom is a computer monitor.

I'm pretty certain the LEAST I should do is start numbering, dating, and marking my negatives right away as I store them. I could easily make a page to run off my printer and fill one out each time, then that goes with each roll. Or just use notebooks if I record all by hand, indexed by date and number.

Don't want to overthink it though. I mean, I spent 3 months researching the "best" methods and ended up going xtol because 1. it works fine and B. it was in stock.

Bill Burk said:
I keep pages of lab notes, a blank notebook would serve as well. The best part when I re-read them is the ‘Issues’ section. If I were to redesign the pages I would make that half the page

Point well taken! The "Same as the last 20 times" aren't nearly as interesting as the "I tried X ands..." or the "Why the heck did THIS happens?"

Now I need an excuse to burn two more rolls of film before the weekend to have something to develop and record.

Moose22 · Nov 3, 2021

Dave Krueger said:
If I seem obsessive, it's because I am. It's the engineer in me. But, recording these notes in a kind of shorthand is very quick compared to the actual printing process .

Same. A lot of years doing quality work, too. Whatever it is, write it down.

Seems to me that, after developing, there's a 5-10 minute spread where I'm rinsing film. After most of the "dishes" are clean and I put the chemistry away just spend 5 minutes finishing up some notes, then it's time to hang the film. Then finish up with "notes" once its dry and you've had a look. Doesn't add any time to the process at all.

mshchem · Nov 3, 2021

I keep a cheap bound notebook, I try to write down everything, in ink. I think is invaluable, great sort of diary too. I can look back over the last 30+ years.

Pieter12 · Nov 3, 2021

mshchem said:
I keep a cheap bound notebook, I try to write down everything, in ink. I think is invaluable, great sort of diary too. I can look back over the last 30+ years.

I probably should start writing my printing notes in ink and large letters. Reading dodging and burning notes under the safelight can be challenging. I guess I could make notes directly on the work print, too.

mshchem · Nov 3, 2021

Pieter12 said:
I probably should start writing my printing notes in ink and large letters. Reading dodging and burning notes under the safelight can be challenging. I guess I could make notes directly on the work print, too.

I write on work prints. I've found a "Sharpie" permanent marker right on the print to work well. A permanent marker is the only ink I've found that doesn't transfer onto other prints. If I print on the back it shows through (RC paper)

I keep a half dozen cheapo flashlights scattered around my darkroom, I can't read my writing under safelights, I can barely read it in daylight

bdial · Nov 3, 2021

For negatives, I note the date, developer, time and exposure index on the top of the sleeve page, plus any other notes that seem pertinent.
For printing i make notes on the back with a sharpie on contact sheets and proof/test prints. I also make notes in a spiral notebook.

Moose22 · Nov 3, 2021

mshchem said:
I keep a cheap bound notebook, I try to write down everything, in ink. I think is invaluable, great sort of diary too. I can look back over the last 30+ years.

Interesting side note: Not all ink is archival. Most is not, in fact.

Pencil, on the other hand, usually is. And it's as inert as can be, so it won't damage paper over the years. That's why it's safe to use to sign a mounted print mat, and why archivists use pencil to make their notes when cataloging museum artifacts.

But for notes under a safelight, I imagine a nice, fat, dark, ink line is a lot easier to see.

For anything I want to read in more than 10 years I'm careful to use an ink that's fade resistant and good paper -- though I have to say, I'm middle aged now and I really don't assume I'll be doing this in 30 years. I very much doubt the necessity for archival qualities in my development notes.

beemermark · Nov 3, 2021

Excel spreadsheet with all the pertinent information (and then some more)

gone · Nov 4, 2021

After my negs have been cut and sleeved, I take a black marker and write on the top of the print files: the date, the camera and lens that was used, what the IE was, whether or not a fltr was used, the developer and dilution, type of agitation, and the time and temp of the development. For prints, I only record the date on the print margins w/ a black marker pen.

It's the filing of the print sleeves where I fail. Do I file it under type of film used? Or the camera and lens used? Or the date? I just stuff them into a binder, and when it fills up, I get another binder. It takes forever to find stuff, but when I do find it, I know exactly what happened to those negatives.

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 4, 2021

I used to keep extremely anal notes but these days I rarely write anything down. Keeping good notes is important though, especially when starting out. Whenever I go on an extended road trip, I do keep a record of my exposures in a notebook especially when I'm shooting sheet film...for roll films, I just write on the roll (which developer and N, N-, N+, etc).

Pieter12 · Nov 4, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
I used to keep extremely anal notes but these days I rarely write anything down. Keeping good notes is important though, especially when starting out. Whenever I go on an extended road trip, I do keep a record of my exposures in a notebook especially when I'm shooting sheet film...for roll films, I just write on the roll (which developer and N, N-, N+, etc).

It is useful when one wants to go back and reprint a negative, either to duplicate a print or to improve upon it.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 4, 2021

Pieter12 said:
I only work with one developer--Rodinal. I used to keep notes on developing (time and dilution) with the negative sleeve. Once I established a norm, I only note it on the sleeve if there's some deviation. For prints, I use a steno notebook with notes about print size, cropping, lens and aperture as well as the times (I do split-grade printing) and any burning and dodging and associated factors for those, so I can reprint or when I go to make a final print from a work print. I really should compile that data and have it filed with the negative sleeve or the work print for easy access. But I don't. I have a stack of notebooks, dated and usually with post-it tabs all along the edges.

I take detailed notes on paperand keep them with the negatives for future use.

juan · Nov 4, 2021

I tried various electronic methods, but found a notebook to be better for all the variables. For sheet film I made a form that records location, all exposure data, camera movements, etc. in the upper half. In the lower half, I write development information. For test prints, I write all exposure and development on the back in pencil. After I figure out the printing formula, including dodging and burning, I write it on the backside of the original form.

esearing · Nov 4, 2021

Since I primarily shoot 4x5 or larger I use a 3x5 card with printed forms for Exposure notes on one side and Development notes on the other. These go into a 3x5 card case and have an image numbering system for database entry when I get really bored one day. For smaller formats I do not keep exposure notes.
https://www.searing.photography/field-exposure-and-printing-notes/

radiant · Nov 4, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
I used to keep extremely anal notes but these days I rarely write anything down. Keeping good notes is important though, especially when starting out. Whenever I go on an extended road trip, I do keep a record of my exposures in a notebook especially when I'm shooting sheet film...for roll films, I just write on the roll (which developer and N, N-, N+, etc).

Same here. I used to write exposure times behind prints but I have hardly ever used the information.

When shooting large format I might sometimes mark down the exposure/time but I have not found any case where I've actually used the information. Usually I can read more from the negative.. And extensive spot measuring + writing things down makes shooting large format even more laborius.

For finding my personal preferences for film developing I'm writing things down on iPhone built in Notes - app. That app is generally my most used tool in whole life. I write so many things there and everything syncs up on my iPad & Macbook. So effortless and easy. All notes are with me all the time. If I want to do handwritten notes (creative) I use GoodNotes app on iPad with Pen. Same goes there with synced things; I can read the GoodNote doodles etc. from all my devices. Pretty awesome!

faberryman · Nov 4, 2021

I used to keep exposure notes but after awhile realized I rarely go back and reprint old negatives so I discontinued the practice. Besides, over time my darkroom skills have improved so I thought if I did want to reprint something, I wouldn't want to print it the same way.

Andrew O'Neill · Nov 4, 2021

Pieter12 said:
It is useful when one wants to go back and reprint a negative, either to duplicate a print or to improve upon it.

Yes, true but I mainly Alt print with digi negs. When I was teaching myself carbon transfer, and tri-colour gum, I kept notes. I still refer back to tri-colour notes as it's easy for me to forget the ratio of colours, and each of their exposure times. If I make a silver gelatine print, notes as well as dodging/burning info is written on the back of a scrap print. I haven't made a gel/silver print in several years...but I still have my notes if I ever want to print. As long as it's not on Forte Polygrade V...

MurrayMinchin · Nov 4, 2021

I came up with a solution for 4x5’s while on two month long trips and living in a tent.

I'd use glassine envelopes to keep notes for each exposure. At days end I'd cut small notches in one edge of each sleeve to indicate what development the negative was supposed to get before unloading the film holders.

This meant that all the exposed negatives could go into one box, they were protected from bouncing around against each other, all the information would stay with the negative into the future, and each would get proper development.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 4, 2021

Moose22 said:
Thanks for the ideas.

I'm going to have to think about it, but it is good to hear what people are doing. I'm leaning toward analog because I do it in the kitchen. Best to make notes immediately, as I go. Else I'll get lazy and never do it. If I ever get to a point where I print, the last thing I want in a darkroom is a computer monitor.

I'm pretty certain the LEAST I should do is start numbering, dating, and marking my negatives right away as I store them. I could easily make a page to run off my printer and fill one out each time, then that goes with each roll. Or just use notebooks if I record all by hand, indexed by date and number.

Don't want to overthink it though. I mean, I spent 3 months researching the "best" methods and ended up going xtol because 1. it works fine and B. it was in stock.

Point well taken! The "Same as the last 20 times" aren't nearly as interesting as the "I tried X ands..." or the "Why the heck did THIS happens?"

Now I need an excuse to burn two more rolls of film before the weekend to have something to develop and record.

using notebooks works fine and is easy enough.

warden · Nov 4, 2021

I'm not very detailed, but always record the date, developer, camera and lens, and any note about pushing or pulling if necessary. Out of all that the date is the most important, and most used, for me.

Record keeping when developing

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