Recommended chemistry for first steps on developing color negatives...

The more I think about it the more I want to try to learn and process color film... I know that Cinestill offers the CS41, Rollei has the C-41 kit for color film and Kodak has the Flexicolor kit.

What kit will you recommend to start learning color film developing?

I've used CineStill, Arista and Flexicolor. The first two are essentially the same. But I've switched to Flexicolor. The #1 reason is that is uses separate bleach and fixer instead of a combination blix. I *believe* I'm getting better shelf life and it's a lot less expensive. You spend a lot up front because the quantities are large, but on a price/roll basis, it's a lot less expensive. In particular, the developer is very inexpensive so I use it one-stop. Karl Abbott writeup is pretty good: https://www.kabbottphoto.com/c-41-with-kodak-flexicolor-at-home/

Doug Kaye said:

I've used CineStill, Arista and Flexicolor. The first two are essentially the same. But I've switched to Flexicolor. The #1 reason is that is uses separate bleach and fixer instead of a combination blix. I *believe* I'm getting better shelf life and it's a lot less expensive. You spend a lot up front because the quantities are large, but on a price/roll basis, it's a lot less expensive. In particular, the developer is very inexpensive so I use it one-stop. Karl Abbott writeup is pretty good: https://www.kabbottphoto.com/c-41-with-kodak-flexicolor-at-home/

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I was just reading the writeup on C-41 a few minutes ago while preparing something to eat... I have been reading about the Rollei and the Kodak options, I guess watching videos and researching it's the way to go at this point!

Watching videos and reading online descriptions is certainly valuable, however, make sure, that the products described in these resources are actually available in your region. The market is fluid, products come and go, or may only be sold in some regions of this world. Product cost is certainly an important point, but also account for shipping cost, which can vary a lot between two products or offerings.

I use the Unicolor 1 liter kit which will develop up to 16 rolls and the kit is the least expensive at FreeStyle.

Sirius Glass said:

I use the Unicolor 1 liter kit which will develop up to 16 rolls and the kit is the least expensive at FreeStyle.

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+1: I learned with the Unicolor kit and I think it delivers consistently good results. The shelf life of the dry chemicals is very long and the shelf life of the wet solutions is 3-6 months in my experience. I had one dry kit that was bad, but only because the foil envelope was badly sealed. (It had been sitting on my shelf for two years...)

Tel said:

+1: I learned with the Unicolor kit and I think it delivers consistently good results. The shelf life of the dry chemicals is very long and the shelf life of the wet solutions is 3-6 months in my experience. I had one dry kit that was bad, but only because the foil envelope was badly sealed. (It had been sitting on my shelf for two years...)

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I had one Unicolor 1 liter kit that sat for 6 years before I used it and there were no problems.

MrFus said:

What kit will you recommend to start learning color film developing?

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The one(s) you can get where you live. For instance, if you're in Europe, don't get hung up on Flexicolor cause you'll probably not get your hands on it.

In the end, C41 is C41. Having said that I personally prefer chemistry with separate bleach and fix, but I see excellent results from blix too even though theoretically it won't perform as well as separate baths.

koraks said:

The one(s) you can get where you live. For instance, if you're in Europe, don't get hung up on Flexicolor cause you'll probably not get your hands on it.

In the end, C41 is C41. Having said that I personally prefer chemistry with separate bleach and fix, but I see excellent results from blix too even though theoretically it won't perform as well as separate baths.

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I got that while reading about the process, so working with color film using the c41 process is almost the same regardless of who markets the kit... Some has separated parts for the bleach and the fix some indicate to mix both parts to simplify the process.

One thing that I still can't get completely clear is the fact that on B&W different developers have different times for different films, but on color the times are the same... It doesn't matter if is Kodak Gold 200 or Porta 400 you need to be sure temperature is correct and time for each step is accurate.

MrFus said:

One thing that I still can't get completely clear is the fact that on B&W different developers have different times for different films, but on color the times are the same... It doesn't matter if is Kodak Gold 200 or Porta 400 you need to be sure temperature is correct and time for each step is accurate.

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Correct.
C-41 is designed to be compatible with high volume commercial processing. In a perfect world it should not matter which C-41 film you have developed, or which lab does the processing, the aim of the system is to give consistent and identical results.
At least that is what is supposed to happen.

MrFus said:

I got that while reading about the process, so working with color film using the c41 process is almost the same regardless of who markets the kit... Some has separated parts for the bleach and the fix some indicate to mix both parts to simplify the process.

One thing that I still can't get completely clear is the fact that on B&W different developers have different times for different films, but on color the times are the same... It doesn't matter if is Kodak Gold 200 or Porta 400 you need to be sure temperature is correct and time for each step is accurate.

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MattKing said:

Correct.
C-41 is designed to be compatible with high volume commercial processing. In a perfect world it should not matter which C-41 film you have developed, or which lab does the processing, the aim of the system is to give consistent and identical results.
At least that is what is supposed to happen.

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As Matt said C-41 and E-6 processes were standardized for commercial processing and also avoid have the proliferation of many competing films and processes.

MrFus said:

I got that while reading about the process, so working with color film using the c41 process is almost the same regardless of who markets the kit... Some has separated parts for the bleach and the fix some indicate to mix both parts to simplify the process.

One thing that I still can't get completely clear is the fact that on B&W different developers have different times for different films, but on color the times are the same... It doesn't matter if is Kodak Gold 200 or Porta 400 you need to be sure temperature is correct and time for each step is accurate.

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That's a beauty of C-41. One size fits all. The film makers have to make their emulsions work with the chemistry.

I've done C-41 off and on for at least 38 years. I've used it to develop the CN-2 movie films, too. It's easier than you think, despite the alleged +/- 1/4 degree F developer requirement. That's ideal, but not essential. After all, how many here have a thermometer that reads to that level of accuracy? Even my Kodak lab grade stick thermometer reads only to one degree. The good news is that the popular kits have a lower temperature option which makes temperature control much easier.

Ask yourself, "What is my intended purpose after development?" If you send your negs to a lab to print, it will probably cost you more than just sending your exposed roll in! The most logical option is scanning them. Oh, the analog purist screams of horror! A dozen years ago the concept here (when this was APUG.....Analog Photographer's User Group...was pitchforks and burning at the stake. APUG transmogrified to the inevitable and now it's Photrio with a Hybrid forum, and a digital one. Scanning and inkjet printing lets millions of people make images that they could not due to lack of a wet darkroom. You can also provide a scanned image to a lab and have a "real" RA-4 wet print made.

Color neg films also make incredible B&W images! No need for Ilford XP.

Moving on, to get your feet wet, just go with Unicolor. https://www.freestylephoto.biz/search?q=unicolor Forget Flexicolor; it's a very complicated system and you won't get any better results using your home darkroom.

There's nothing wrong with blix for home use. I've been on threads here years ago on blix vs. separate chemicals and even the much revered (RIP) Photo Engineer held out on separate as best, mostly theoretical, but blix ain't bad.

After you use a Unicolor 1 liter kit, you may want to try the all liquid Rollei/Compard chemicals. This is what I've last used. https://www.adorama.com/l/?searchinfo=rollei c-41&sel=Item-Condition_New-Items

You can make as little or as much chemical as you want, since it's liquid, and although they don't give directions, the bleach and fixer are separate, so have at it. After you open the developer bottles, blast some canned "air" (a Freon) in to displace the air now within.

A trick to fight the short life of any C-41 developer is to 1) blast "air" in as above, 2) refrigerate, or 3) freeze.

I hope this helps your journey!

Flexicolor is not complicated at all. Color development (the very first step) is the only critical step that needs temp and time control. All the remaining steps don't need strict temp control and as far as time goes just give them more than specified time nothing can go wrong.

Don't understand why people still insist in using blix. Bleach can be reused for many many times but the fixer gets exhausted quickly and has to be tossed. If you use blix you will have to toss the bleach in it too. Unfortunately bleach is very expensive. Why waste money by using blix? Besides if you read PE's post about this subject you will known why you should use separate bleach and fixer.

The developer goes bad because of oxidation of the CD-4. So the existence of Oxygen in the developer bottle is the cause why the developer goes bad. Refrifgerate or freeze the developer won't do a thing to keep the developer from going bad.

I have tried freezing developer only to have the ingredients separate, requiring a lot of shaking to redissolve which oxidizes the developer. Developers and fixers should be stored in clean, glass containers filled and sealed tightly for longest life.

MattKing said:

Correct.
C-41 is designed to be compatible with high volume commercial processing. In a perfect world it should not matter which C-41 film you have developed, or which lab does the processing, the aim of the system is to give consistent and identical results.
At least that is what is supposed to happen.

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The technical reason C-41 is a standardized process is because C-41 film has three primary emulsions whereas b&w doesn't. The process is designed to develop the three emulsions a specific way for optimum results. You can't get those optimum results (although you might get close) doing the process any other way.

I do not try to save C-41 chemicals. I save up to 16 rolls and develop them in two or three days, as fast as I can. My problem is that I do not like making prints of the whole roll and that times 16 is a lot. So now I send out smaller number of rolls for processing and printing more often.

RPC said:

I have tried freezing developer only to have the ingredients separate, requiring a lot of shaking to redissolve which oxidizes the developer. Developers and fixers should be stored in clean, glass containers filled and sealed tightly for longest life.

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I've had no issues with refrigeration. I'm thinking you could warm the developer up to redissolve instead of shaking.

mtjade2007 said:

Flexicolor is not complicated at all. Color development (the very first step) is the only critical step that needs temp and time control. All the remaining steps don't need strict temp control and as far as time goes just give them more than specified time nothing can go wrong.

Don't understand why people still insist in using blix. Bleach can be reused for many many times but the fixer gets exhausted quickly and has to be tossed. If you use blix you will have to toss the bleach in it too. Unfortunately bleach is very expensive. Why waste money by using blix? Besides if you read PE's post about this subject you will known why you should use separate bleach and fixer.

The developer goes bad because of oxidation of the CD-4. So the existence of Oxygen in the developer bottle is the cause why the developer goes bad. Refrifgerate or freeze the developer won't do a thing to keep the developer from going bad.

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Remember, this is a guy trying his first C-41. Flexicolor IS complicated in getting the right system chemicals. Once upon a time, Kodak had a home kit. All the Flexicolor supplies today are for minilabs. And, there's no lower temperature option like with Unicolor or Rollei. Some years ago I looked into FC and after seeing the difficulty of sourcing the right stuff, I said eff it and bought Rollei. Ah..........

Why blix? Because people want to cut a step. Let them if they so wish.

Of course refrigeration inhibits oxidation. Chemical processes. Temperature dependent. Chemistry 101. That's why food doesn't spoil as fast in a fridge.

I usually develop one roll at a time; I don't see the point to waiting and doing a bunch of them together. So I mix up the chemicals and then decant into four 500ml brown glass bottles with screw-on caps. (2 dev and 2 blix) I don't freeze or refrigerate, just keep them tightly capped. I live in New Jersey, so summer days often get into the 80s indoors, and maybe I get a shorter shelf life than in the winter months, but right now I'm working with a batch I mixed up on April 16th. I retired the first pair of bottles a couple of weeks ago (the dev began to get too dark for my taste) after ten rolls and I'm 6 rolls into the second pair of bottles with the developer still looking good and performing well. My last batch was mixed in November and retired in early April and stored at room temp, roughly 60-65 degrees. So maybe I would get more shelf life with refrigeration, but I suspect that exhaustion is a greater factor than the others. In any case, I get anywhere from 16 to 20 rolls out of a single liter, which puts my per-roll expense around $2.

And the big reason to do your own C-41 is that it's not hard! You don't need a sous vide heater. I use a cheap plastic tub in my sink with a couple of thermometers from B&H--one for the bath water in the tub and one to read the actual temp of the developer. 3 1/2 minutes for the developer and 6 1/2 for the blix, 20 minutes or so to let the chemistry sit in its bath and warm up and another ten for washing and hanging. Weigh that against the cost of paying a lab, the time spent driving to your local lab (if you have a local lab) and/or the time spent shipping your film to and from a lab in another town. It's too easy and too affordable not to do it. My advice to the OP is, dive in.

Tel said:

I usually develop one roll at a time; I don't see the point to waiting and doing a bunch of them together. So I mix up the chemicals and then decant into four 500ml brown glass bottles with screw-on caps. (2 dev and 2 blix) I don't freeze or refrigerate, just keep them tightly capped. I live in New Jersey, so summer days often get into the 80s indoors, and maybe I get a shorter shelf life than in the winter months, but right now I'm working with a batch I mixed up on April 16th. I retired the first pair of bottles a couple of weeks ago (the dev began to get too dark for my taste) after ten rolls and I'm 6 rolls into the second pair of bottles with the developer still looking good and performing well. My last batch was mixed in November and retired in early April and stored at room temp, roughly 60-65 degrees. So maybe I would get more shelf life with refrigeration, but I suspect that exhaustion is a greater factor than the others. In any case, I get anywhere from 16 to 20 rolls out of a single liter, which puts my per-roll expense around $2.

And the big reason to do your own C-41 is that it's not hard! You don't need a sous vide heater. I use a cheap plastic tub in my sink with a couple of thermometers from B&H--one for the bath water in the tub and one to read the actual temp of the developer. 3 1/2 minutes for the developer and 6 1/2 for the blix, 20 minutes or so to let the chemistry sit in its bath and warm up and another ten for washing and hanging. Weigh that against the cost of paying a lab, the time spent driving to your local lab (if you have a local lab) and/or the time spent shipping your film to and from a lab in another town. It's too easy and too affordable not to do it. My advice to the OP is, dive in.

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The only reason I develop as many rolls as I can as fast as I can is to that I can use up the C-41 chemicals before they start to go bad. Other than that I do not rush processing film.

I routinely get 3-6 months out of a batch of chemicals. Like I said, I split each liter into two sets of 500ml each. With this last batch, the one mixed on April 16, I dumped the first pair of bottles after ten rolls. The second pair looked and performed like new. I've never experienced a short shelf life with this stuff. Here's a shot from roll #10, two months after the dev was made up:

bride by terry, on Flickr

And here's "roll" #16 (actually 2 5x7 sheets of Portra 160) 10 weeks after the batch was made up:

D&R Canal by terry, on Flickr

I decant Flexicolor developer into canning jars. They are available at grocery stores, hardware stores and home centers and come in half pint, pint, quart and half gallon sizes. They are glass, have a very tight seal and when filled, I have had the developer last years and hardly change color. The same with Kodak RA-RT Developer/Replenisher for RA-4. The last thing I worry about is using it up quickly.

I just dug out the Unicolor instruction sheet and had a read of the "capacity" notes there. Most of what they say seems to run counter to my experience over ten years of doing my own C-41. They say the limit is 8 rolls, which is nonsense. And they say you can push it further if you want to experiment (true) but then they assert that the stuff dies slowly. The two times I've had a batch of Unicolor dev fail it literally fell of the cliff. At the time I was stretching it to see how far I'd get, and had reached 30 rolls of 35mm. I had a roll of outdated Portra that I used for clip testing after I topped 20 rolls and two times the clip test looked OK but the developer failed immediately afterward. It is possible, though, that the cause of the failure might have been cross-contamination; I was still new at the process and may not have been rigorous enough in avoidance of blix contamination.

So I would encourage the OP to experiment with it once the process has been mastered. Color is good fun and highly rewarding. And not necessarily expensive.

RPC said:

I decant Flexicolor developer into canning jars. They are available at grocery stores, hardware stores and home centers and come in half pint, pint, quart and half gallon sizes. They are glass, have a very tight seal and when filled, I have had the developer last years and hardly change color. The same with Kodak RA-RT Developer/Replenisher for RA-4. The last thing I worry about is using it up quickly.

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Yeah, I'm inclined to think that the key to longevity is a tightly sealed lid.