- Joined
- Nov 16, 2004
- Messages
- 3,230
For 35mm it is often recommended to use a shutter speed which is the reciprocal of the lens focal length in mm.
However this only applies to a negative which is 36mm wide.
For a 67 camera, which has a negative nearly twice as wide, the shutter speed should be higher by twice the reciprocal of the lens focal length in mm?
All approximate of course.
I am referring to the same focal length lenses for both formats, since it is the 35mm format to which the reciprocal rule is generally applied.
Say the shake blur on 35mm is equivalent to the width of one distant person. Then on 67 at the same shutter speed it will be equivalent to the width of two distant people.
Hence on 67 to get the shake blur equal to that on 35mm, one distant person, it is necessary to use twice as fast shutter speed ?
I am referring to the same focal length lenses for both formats, since it is the 35mm format to which the reciprocal rule is generally applied.
Say the shake blur on 35mm is equivalent to the width of one distant person. Then on 67 at the same shutter speed it will be equivalent to the width of two distant people.
Hence on 67 to get the shake blur equal to that on 35mm, one distant person, it is necessary to use twice as fast shutter speed ?
sounds reasonable;However, I 'be never changed the rule for format and it worked anyway.For 35mm it is often recommended to use a shutter speed which is the reciprocal of the lens focal length in mm.
However this only applies to a negative which is 36mm wide.
For a 67 camera, which has a negative nearly twice as wide, the shutter speed should be higher by twice the reciprocal of the lens focal length in mm?
All approximate of course.
The original Rule of Thumb for shutter speed=1/FL was actually developed in the days of Medium Format, and that when the 'subminiature' format came along (135) the photographic world largely failed to adapt the Rule to the smaller format! And it was not until the digital format APS-C came along that someone remembered to factor in the 'crop size'. As a result we have today:
...so any 'safety margin' that was in the original Rule of Thumb for Medium Format vanished in the 135 format Rule!
- 135 format: = 1/FL
- APS-C format: = 1/(FL*1.6)
- Medium Format: = 1/FL
In reality, the actual Rules should have been:
So we should have had as our Rules of Thumb:
- Medium Format = 1/FL
- 135 format = 1/(FL* 2.3)
- APS-C format = 1/(FL* (2.3 * 1.6))
as all frames would then have captured the identical linear distance along the short dimension of the frame, and the camera motion induced blur is the same fraction of the same final size prints from each.
- 80mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for medium format (i.e., the 56mm tall frames of 6x6 and 6x7), where 'normal FL' = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 56mm)
- 34mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for 135 format, where 'normal FL' also = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 24mm)
- 21mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for APS-C format, where 'normal FL' also = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 15mm)
If we consider the fact that 135 format uses an OVERLY-LONG FL as its 'normal' -- which was a convenience for the SLR to clear the reflex mirror swing -- when using 50mm FL we ought to be shooting at 1/125 (1 / (50 * 2.3)
The original Rule of Thumb for shutter speed=1/FL was actually developed in the days of Medium Format, and that when the 'subminiature' format came along (135) the photographic world largely failed to adapt the Rule to the smaller format! And it was not until the digital format APS-C came along that someone remembered to factor in the 'crop size'. As a result we have today:
...so any 'safety margin' that was in the original Rule of Thumb for Medium Format vanished in the 135 format Rule!
- 135 format: = 1/FL
- APS-C format: = 1/(FL*1.6)
- Medium Format: = 1/FL
In reality, the actual Rules should have been:
So we should have had as our Rules of Thumb:
- Medium Format = 1/FL
- 135 format = 1/(FL* 2.3)
- APS-C format = 1/(FL* (2.3 * 1.6))
as all frames would then have captured the identical linear distance along the short dimension of the frame, and the camera motion induced blur is the same fraction of the same final size prints from each.
- 80mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for medium format (i.e., the 56mm tall frames of 6x6 and 6x7), where 'normal FL' = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 56mm)
- 34mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for 135 format, where 'normal FL' also = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 24mm)
- 21mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for APS-C format, where 'normal FL' also = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 15mm)
If we consider the fact that 135 format uses an OVERLY-LONG FL as its 'normal' -- which was a convenience for the SLR to clear the reflex mirror swing -- when using 50mm FL we ought to be shooting at 1/125 (1 / (50 * 2.3)
Not anal, simply explaining the historical derivation of the Rule of Thumb -- let me emphasize Rule of Thumb - which is a guideline and nothing more. Some folks are steadier than a rock, and others have Parkinsons' tremble, so the Rule does necessarily apply to all.Why so anal and complicated, it's a very quick 35mm rule of thumb, nothing more. And what you state fails in practice I should know as I regularly shoot 5x4 hand held, at a recent lecture I asked the audience to pick out the hand held LF work and they couldn't, I shoot 1/25th upwards depending on the light.
Ian
hardly a rule of thumb anymoreThe original Rule of Thumb for shutter speed=1/FL was actually developed in the days of Medium Format, and that when the 'subminiature' format came along (135) the photographic world largely failed to adapt the Rule to the smaller format! And it was not until the digital format APS-C came along that someone remembered to factor in the 'crop size'. As a result we have today:
...so any 'safety margin' that was in the original Rule of Thumb for Medium Format vanished in the 135 format Rule!
- 135 format: = 1/FL
- APS-C format: = 1/(FL*1.6)
- Medium Format: = 1/FL
In reality, the actual Rules should have been:
So we should have had as our Rules of Thumb:
- Medium Format = 1/FL
- 135 format = 1/(FL* 2.3)
- APS-C format = 1/(FL* (2.3 * 1.6))
as all frames would then have captured the identical linear distance along the short dimension of the frame, and the camera motion induced blur is the same fraction of the same final size prints from each.
- 80mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for medium format (i.e., the 56mm tall frames of 6x6 and 6x7), where 'normal FL' = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 56mm)
- 34mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for 135 format, where 'normal FL' also = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 24mm)
- 21mm FL 'normal' = 1/80 min.safe handheld speed ...for APS-C format, where 'normal FL' also = 1.43x the smaller frame dimension (1.43 * 15mm)
If we consider the fact that 135 format uses an OVERLY-LONG FL as its 'normal' -- which was a convenience for the SLR to clear the reflex mirror swing -- when using 50mm FL we ought to be shooting at 1/125 (1 / (50 * 2.3)
This version of post #20 is probably easier to read. I removed a few typos and did some revision.
The common rule is a simplification that works fine for small formats, but becomes increasingly inaccurate with increasing format size. More correctly, the rule should depend on magnification, which is where the focal length comes into play. It is, of course, the angular sweep of the lens axis during the time in which the shutter is open that must be limited to some practical value that is the same for all formats and lenses....
The main idea is to limit the angular sweep of the lens axis during the shutter-open period to the same value for all formats and any lens of known focal length f.
Rules. Boring.
They really mean nothing. What camera are you using? A Pentax 67 is going to be different than a Mamiya 7 but both have the same negative size. I have sharp images with handheld 4x5 at 1/8s. 35mm with a 50 at 1/8 as well. I am sure I am not alone.
Rules are stupid. Maybe this one should be called a "suggestion".
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?