Reccomenations for a really slow film please

salan · Feb 3, 2011

Hi All,
I am after as slow as pos B&W film in both 35mm and 120 please.
Also what about pulling a film?
I have pushed films in the past but never pulled a film, so what do I need to look out for?
In one thread there was talk of 12ASA is there anything slower?
Why am I interested? well the really slow films I have seen produce a print that I find really fantastic, so I would like to try.
I am in the UK so I really need somewhere that I can get the film form easily. some of the US suppliers tend to have a large postage fee and some will not post to the UK.

You know, I have only just got back to film in the last two weeks and I have had more fun then I have in a year with my digitals!
God I can almost smell the hypo! lol
Alan

Nicholas Lindan · Feb 3, 2011

In 120 I am not sure there is any advantage to anything 'finer' than TMax-100 or Delta 100. I didn't notice any advantage to Tech Pan in 120.

The best solution is to use a larger format. If you look hard you can probably find a 4x5 outfit for not much money. And, of course, nothing beats an 8x10 or 11x14 contact print. 11x14 is a good size as you are never tempted to buy an enlarger - a real danger if you shoot a lot of 8x10.

The alternatives in 35mm, now that Tech Pan is no more, are the Gigabit/Bluefire/Copex microfilms in combination with an ultra-low contrast developer.

salan · Feb 3, 2011

Nicholas Lindan said:
Try a larger format. A medium format camera, even something very modest like a Zeiss Nettar, loaded with TMax-100 or Delta will produce 'smoother' prints than any 35mm film. If you look hard you can probably find a 4x5 outfit for not much money.

The alternatives, now that Tech Pan is no more, are the Gigabit/Bluefire/Copex microfilms in combination with an ultra-low contrast developer.

4x5 is in the pipeline but for now I need to use what I have so its 35mm and 120.
Already thinking of 10x8 lol but the wife will need a LOT of convincing lol

holmburgers · Feb 3, 2011

Here's that "Police Film" -> http://www.frugalphotographer.com/catBluefire.htm#Bluefire Police 135-24 35mm

I'd really like to know more about it, so if you use it, please report back!

Kevin Kehler · Feb 3, 2011

I suggest Ilford's Pan F+ in both 120 and 35mm and expose at 25 ISO. If you use Perceptol developer, there is no grain whatsoever but you do need to print on a slightly higher contrast scale. I have a 24x30 print from a 6x7 negative which still has no grain when you put your eyeball up to it. I use Rodinal to develop my Pan F+ now so there is minimal grain but more perceived sharpness. I usually cut my film speed to 1/2 box speed but Ilford has a development time for ID-11 with 25 ISO - shoot at 12 ISO and develop for the 25 ISO time, I am sure it would be nice.

darkroom_rookie · Feb 3, 2011

Kevin Kehler said:
I suggest Ilford's Pan F+ in both 120 and 35mm and expose at 25 ISO. If you use Perceptol developer, there is no grain whatsoever but you do need to print on a slightly higher contrast scale. I have a 24x30 print from a 6x7 negative which still has no grain when you put your eyeball up to it. I use Rodinal to develop my Pan F+ now so there is minimal grain but more perceived sharpness.

Kevin, do you know if Pan F+ 120 developed in XTOL with as little agitation as possible would yield much more grain than Perceptol or Rodinal?

Tim Gray · Feb 3, 2011

I'd suggest T-Max 100 or Delta 100.

salan · Feb 3, 2011

Tim Gray said:
I'd suggest T-Max 100 or Delta 100.

And expose at what?

David Lyga · Feb 3, 2011

If you are talking SLOW I use Kodak ImageLink Microfilm. It comes in either 16mm or 35mm 100 ft rolls. Before you shout with joy let me apprise you of the unfortunate fact that: 1) it must be bought in quantities (ie, 20 to 50 rolls) and 2) it is NOT PERFORATED!!! and 3) its latitude is restricted. Still, I have modified a 35mm SLR to accomodate. You have to be very creative. If you DO decide to torture yourself thusly, here is the exposure and development modification.

First, remember that with ultra slow films the latitude is restricted. You cannot have both shadows and highlights. If overexposed the highlights flatten out seriously. So use for low contrast scenes like shade or very cloudy weather. Use an ISO of about 6 (or two stops slower than Pan F or four stops slower than Ilford FP4+) and develop for half the time you develop Pan F for. You will be rewarded with negatives that don't stop with sharpness and lack of grain (if your camera methodology warrants such).

Perhaps this workaround is not really worth it. Actually, T MAX 100 and Pan F are great if processed correctly (expose at about half the manufacturer's recommended speed and curtail development). But the ultimate in resolution (with shortened latitude) is with Kodak ImageLink Microfilm.

I have bought this film from Don Haddad at Inception Technologies in New Hampshire. His email is
dhaddad@inceptiontech.com and website is inceptiontech.com You must buy 50 rolls (I know, far too much) and they rebrand the film as Kodak Professional Film. I costs about $15 per roll in that quantity. delivered in USA.
The stock number at Inception Technologies is: 191-9372 (New #) 35mmx100’ 1461 (5.0mil) SP425 non perforated 50 roll minimum.

salan · Feb 3, 2011

holmburgers said:
Here's that "Police Film" -> http://www.frugalphotographer.com/catBluefire.htm#Bluefire Police 135-24 35mm

I'd really like to know more about it, so if you use it, please report back!

Looks fantastic... Right up to the point of postage!
To get two films (+dev) to try will cost $14 +$36 p&p!!
I havn't found a UK supplier yet.
Yes if I bought a load of rolls, the [ostage stay the same,but I want to try the stuff before getting a good supply!
Alan

georg16nik · Feb 3, 2011

Talking 35mm.. I use Adox CMS 20 a lot, sometimes in its dedicated developer Adotech.. sometimes I shot it as 8 ASA and develop it in highly diluted Rodinal.
You can get it in UK from silverprint.co.uk and other places.
There are some photos in my gallery @ 8 ASA

Have fun!

Tim Gray · Feb 3, 2011

salan said:
And expose at what?

Whatever ends up working for you. Probably somewhere between 50 and 100 for normal contrast negatives of normal looking situations.

ntenny · Feb 3, 2011

Apart from microfilms, I don't think there's anything commercial with a box speed lower than 25. Microfilms (Bluefire Police, CMS 20, &c.) require a low-contrast developer, and it seems that people usually need to do some fiddling to establish an exposure-and-development regime that works for them---the reward is *really* minuscule grain.

Usually the tradeoff is between speed and grain, so I assume what you're after is the "grainless" look in the final print, right? In medium format, unless you intend to print *really* big, any of the slow films should be effectively grainless. If you're after something else such as a particular tonality, you may want to try a few different films and see what gets you the closest.

The 25-speed ortho film sold under the Maco/Rollei name may be worth looking at; it's extremely fine-grained but doesn't have the contrast of a microfilm. Of course you get the ortho "look" with it, for better or worse---skies are hard to control and pink skin will look dark and rough. Not the film for, say, sweet heartwarming mother-and-baby portraits...

-NT

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 3, 2011

Three words:
Neutral
Density
Filters

You can use films of normal speed if you stack a couple of these guys on your lens. There are some that will give you long exposures even in broad daylight.

- Thomas

David Lyga · Feb 3, 2011

SALAN: I bought 100 rolls (!). Yes, I am a nutcase and poor even!

But the film is as I said: restricted with latitide and very quick to develop (because it is INTENDED for ultra high contrast). My recommendation for development was for continuous tone, normal like you would develop other films. WARNING: Don Haddad told me to state that the film is not returnable (understandable) but all I can say is that my luck has been flawless there. Other firms sell the ImageLink but, I belive, NOT rebranded so you will pay about $22 a roll in lesser quantities but I think still 20 rolls minimum. I had called other microfilm suppliers and some even thought I was nuts to be thinking that ANYONE would still buy microfilm with scanning technology what it is. I tried to be honest and accurate with this info. The rest is up to you. - David Lyga.

Kevin Kehler · Feb 3, 2011

darkroom_rookie said:
Kevin, do you know if Pan F+ 120 developed in XTOL with as little agitation as possible would yield much more grain than Perceptol or Rodinal?

Sorry, never used XTOL. I would assume not a lot more grain but if you are shooting MF, even with Rodinal, the grain is minimal and you need a lot of enlargement prior to seeing any grain. I almost never shoot 35mm anymore, since even FP4+ 35mm looks grainy printed at 8x10 compared to MF Tri-X. Easier just to carry a Yashica Mat around than an SLR, and to the uninformed, it doesn't scream camera. Although I had someone ask if it was a 3-D camera from Korea.

marcmarc · Feb 3, 2011

Pan F+ in Rodinal is fantastic. So is Adox/Efke 50 in Rodinal. With my set up I find Adox to be a bit sharper then Pan F. I shoot both at iso 25. Adox/Efke advise not to over expose. I'm not sure why this is so, but I do it anyway to ensure adequate shadow detail.

removed account4 · Feb 4, 2011

i've shot tmx100 and delta100 at asa 6 before
it is kind of fun.
look for welder's goggles and you don't need to pull your film
it will eat up about 5 stops, and give you a fun look.

good luck !
john

Metroman · Feb 4, 2011

Alan - have you looked at the Adox/Efke range? Or have a chat with Matt at Ag Photographic, very helpful chap.

salan · Feb 4, 2011

WOW Its nice to see so much interest in using slow films/settings. I must admit, I thought I would be'billy nomates' in this thread.
Thank you all for the suggestions. Please keep them comming.I will (in time) try them all. THe Adox range looks good, but when I went on the silverprint site, I couldn't actually find any for sale?
I will try AG photographis today, thank you.
I am eagerly chomping at the bit waiting for my 120 film to arive so that I can try out my camera. This weekend (in between moving furniture around!) I hope to take some 35mm pictures using fp4+and I might have a delta100 lurking somewhere.
I must get some developer as I am sure the stuff I have will be bad by now. Although I do have some ID-11 powder I think Time to go through the drawers and see just what I have. I came across some 1000W bulbe the other day!
god they give some heat out!
Again thanks for the suggestions. The bluefire film looks fantastic, but for now the cost of postage is just not worth it.
Alan

Rick A · Feb 4, 2011

Rollei Ortho 25 or Adox Ortho 25 will give you spectacular results. Expect it to be a bit contrasty, but that can be tamed. Ilford makes Ortho+ in 4x5 that I like more and more as I learn its nuances.

polyglot · Feb 4, 2011

What is it about the slow films you like? Long exposures? Tonality? Fine grain? Appropriate recommendations will depend on what it is you seek.

If merely fine grain is all you want, try a modern ISO100 like Acros or TMX in XTOL and get grain-free images in medium format. I find Acros to have about as much resolution as Pan-F and it's 1.5 stops faster but the contrast is much lower.

If you want traditional tonality (curve shape), IMHO Pan-F (D76 1+3) and Efke-25/CHS25 are fantastic, even moreso in Rodinal.

If you want long exposures, you can get a #25 red filter pretty cheaply (drops 3 stops and it looks great!) and pull Pan-F to EI30 to get EI4 with filter. That's about 10s at f/22 in shade (f/5.6 light) including reciprocity failure. Maybe 30s with Efke-25.

salan · Feb 4, 2011

Tonality first but the fine grain as well. Maily tonality. I think like a lot of others, I have found that digital just 'does it all for you'. And takes the fun out of it.
I am not saying that I take perfect digital pictures, far from it!
Just I would prefer to have something that whilst I may make more errors, I will have 100 times the fun.
reciprocity failiure is something I will have to take into acount, but if the film is a very 'slow' one anyway, is that not so much of a problem?
Not really sure at the mo where it wll kick in. To me thats the problem with using a faster film and ND filters.
Alan

Jeff Kubach · Feb 4, 2011

The slowest I've gone is Iford Panf and after that either T-Max100 or Acros 100, usually with good results.

Jeff

georg16nik · Feb 4, 2011

In my experience, the reciprocity failure is higher when using slow films, at least most of the Agfa, Rollei, Adox films. For me, slow means under 25 ASA
However, its start to kick in noticeably, below 1 sec exposures, so in most daylight cases.. - reciprocity failure won't be an issue.

Reccomenations for a really slow film please

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