Rebranded films

Gombrich · Jul 2, 2017

I have been using Delta 400 and Pan F 50 for years, and sometimes having some cheap bulk rolls of fomapan or kentmere for snap shooting. And I really like Delta 400 and Pan F, but I also liked APX100 and TriX and some of the rollei/adox films.

However, every now and then I will google a little on some random film, and I always find these threads where people are saying that Arista is Trix, or Rollei RPX 400 is APX 400, etc etc.

I really want to try out a few more films now that I have started to get good in the darkroom and start to be able to recognise the films I am using. But I really want to avoid buying and liking some brand, but not knowing that the brand is just a rebranded film, and then running the risk of having the source for the film change.

So does anyone know who actually makes their own films? I googled a bit and it seems outside of Kodak, Fuji and Ilford, there are not many options for own-branded films. It seems to basically be Fomapan.

Is that true? Are there any brands that are making their own films and seem to be healthy financially?! I would love to find some to try out.

Thanks!

railwayman3 · Jul 2, 2017

Gombrich said:
So does anyone know who actually makes their own films? I googled a bit and it seems outside of Kodak, Fuji and Ilford, there are not many options for own-branded films. It seems to basically be Fomapan.

Is that true? Are there any brands that are making their own films and seem to be healthy financially?! I would love to find some to try out.

Thanks!

If you're thinking of companies which actually own and operate their own factories and also sell the product under their own name, I think it would be those four plus Ferrania and Adox. SFAIK ?

AgX · Jul 2, 2017

Kodak and Agfa make films but do not sell consumer still film conversions anymore.

MattKing · Jul 2, 2017

Technically, Ilford doesn't make Ilford film - Ilford is a brand name owned by its manufacturer, Harman Technology. Harman also makes and markets the Kentmere films. Harman also makes film under contract for others who put their own name on what they buy from Harman.
And really technically, Eastman Kodak manufactures Kodak still film, but won't sell it to anyone other than Kodak Alaris, who will sell it into the distribution chain.
I am being picky not because I want to be, but rather to ask, more generally, if the OP is really asking for information about films that are identified by the manufacturer, rather than some intermediary.

faberryman · Jul 2, 2017

MattKing said:
Harman also makes film under contract for others who put their own name on what they buy from Harman.

Is it public knowledge which brands other than Ilford and Kentmere are made by Harman?

MattKing · Jul 2, 2017

faberryman said:
Is it public knowledge which brands other than Ilford and Kentmere are made by Hartman?

Anything labelled as being manufactured in the UK would have to be made by Harman.
Harman uses their coater to make a lot of contract, non-photographic product as well. Eastman Kodak is apparently aggressively trying to also be a player in that market. I would assume Inviscoat is already a major player as well.

Theo Sulphate · Jul 2, 2017

Gombrich said:
... But I really want to avoid buying and liking some brand, but not knowing that the brand is just a rebranded film, and then running the risk of having the source for the film change. ...

Exactly. I'm hoping we at APUG can make a list of such rebranded film.

So far, I use just Kodak and Ilford negative film. I do wonder who makes the 110 film Lomography sells.

faberryman · Jul 2, 2017

MattKing said:
Anything labelled as being manufactured in the UK would have to be made by Harman.

Perhaps a UK member will chime in on what those brands may be.

Paul Howell · Jul 2, 2017

In the US Freestyle is rebanded Foma, Ultrafine is likely made by Harman, seems to very close to Kentmere. On another thread some say that Lucky is returning, it may show up as rebranded. For several years I shot Foma, rebranded or labeled, in past year tired Ultrafine and have been very pleased.

AgX · Jul 3, 2017

MattKing said:
I would assume Inviscoat is already a major player as well.

Inoviscoat does on the photographic field only tollcoating, as does Kodak with still-consumer films.
Also Inoviscoat cannot convert.

Thus here we have to define "rebranding": it should mean, selling a film material, made/ordered and sold by another firm, under own label.

To make it more complicated...
There were also cases were the same manufacturer used two brands for the same material (eg. Agfa).
Or very similar material (eg. Harman).

Or the rebrander selling the film in a different conversion (eg. Maco).

Thus a seemingly simple question as that of the OP yields a lot of answers...

gioffry · Jul 3, 2017

For example: who produces Bergger Pancro 400?

Ian Grant · Jul 3, 2017

faberryman said:
Perhaps a UK member will chime in on what those brands may be.

It's public knowledge that Ilfod/Harman have in the past made films for Fuji, Adox (Fotoimpex), Bergger, the new APX100 and a few others.

Ian

Old_Dick · Jul 3, 2017

This might help. https://darkroom-solutions.com/notes

Gombrich · Jul 3, 2017

Old_Dick said:
This might help. https://darkroom-solutions.com/notes

That is exactly what I was looking for, Thanks!

pdeeh · Jul 3, 2017

The trouble with the question is that the answers are always going to be speculative, although some will be more well-evidenced than others (e.g. yes, anything marked "Made in UK" will have come from Harman's factory, and the film with Foma edge-marking that comes out of a box marked Arista is probably Foma)

The only people who actually know who makes what film are the manufacturers and those who package or distribute the film. And they, for reasons of commercial confidentiality, will not be telling.

If someone comes along and tells you that (e.g.) "Bergger 400 is definitely Kentmere 400" (or whatever) then I'd take such pseudo-authoritative statements with a large grain of salt. (the salt of your choice. Sodium bromide is fine, as is Sodium chloride. Potassium fluoride not so much )

Echoes · Jul 3, 2017

gioffry said:
For example: who produces Bergger Pancro 400?

In the box it says " Made in Germany" so I guess Inoviscoat makes it.

flavio81 · Jul 3, 2017

Gombrich said:
So does anyone know who actually makes their own films? I googled a bit and it seems outside of Kodak, Fuji and Ilford, there are not many options for own-branded films. It seems to basically be Fomapan.

Also Agfa Belgium, which i understand does most of the Rollei products.

Also ADOX which have their own line of films.

Also Inoviscoat which is subcontracted by some of the above for special films (i.e. ADOX Color Implosion, if i recall correctly). They also make the Impossible Project's emulsions.

Also Ferrania (Italy) which is currently starting production of a b/w film, "P30."

MattKing · Jul 3, 2017

MattKing said:
make a lot of contract, non-photographic product

MattKing said:
In(o)viscoat is already a major player as well

With respect to my Inoviscoat comment, it was in reference to the "non-photographic" coating market.
It may be that the "non-photographic" market uses much more of the coating resources available than the photographic market.

MattKing · Jul 3, 2017

Old_Dick said:
This might help. https://darkroom-solutions.com/notes

It seems to me that that site is listing films with either the "same or at least very similar characteristics".
Very similar = not the same.

Ian Grant · Jul 3, 2017

MattKing said:
It seems to me that that site is listing films with either the "same or at least very similar characteristics".
Very similar = not the same.

That was my thoughts.

What's more important is what is available right now, if or when you can use the best films you can afford. In my case that's Ilford Delta 100 and 400, a HP5 for LF (as there's no Delta 400 in sheet film), Tmax 100 & 400 are equally as good (I used to use them). I laso shoot Fomapan 100 & 200 with excellent results and have some Arista EDU branded Foma as well..

Ian

gioffry · Jul 3, 2017

Old_Dick said:
This might help. https://darkroom-solutions.com/notes

tnx

Echoes said:
In the box it says " Made in Germany" so I guess Inoviscoat makes it.

tnx

thefizz · Jul 3, 2017

Bergger Pancro 400 is made to Bergger's own specifications and is not a rebranded film.

MattKing · Jul 3, 2017

thefizz said:
Bergger Pancro 400 is made to Bergger's own specifications and is not a rebranded film.

+1
This highlights an issue with definitions.
A lot of the "alternative" films out there are contract films - a distributor goes to a manufacturer and specifies certain characteristics - one from column "A", another from column "B", a third from column "C", etc. The manufacturer creates a new film that matches those specifications. The manufacturer goes on to its next customer, while the distributor markets the film they contracted for.

trendland · Jul 3, 2017

Gombrich said:
I have been using Delta 400 and Pan F 50 for years, and sometimes having some cheap bulk rolls of fomapan or kentmere for snap shooting. And I really like Delta 400 and Pan F, but I also liked APX100 and TriX and some of the rollei/adox films.

However, every now and then I will google a little on some random film, and I always find these threads where people are saying that Arista is Trix, or Rollei RPX 400 is APX 400, etc etc.

I really want to try out a few more films now that I have started to get good in the darkroom and start to be able to recognise the films I am using. But I really want to avoid buying and liking some brand, but not knowing that the brand is just a rebranded film, and then running the risk of having the source for the film change.

So does anyone know who actually makes their own films? I googled a bit and it seems outside of Kodak, Fuji and Ilford, there are not many options for own-branded films. It seems to basically be Fomapan.

Is that true? Are there any brands that are making their own films and seem to be healthy financially?! I would love to find some to try out.

Thanks!

You should just look at real films from manufakturers.Try to get the best film you like - looking to the prices you will find out it is most expensive.
Then you should look to derivates and compare.
If there is no difference you got it.
It is more and more complicate to find out what you've bought when you have an emulsion.
And when you are sure about 100% it could happen that it is just changed.
It is the same with prices - just when you
find out a good source to by films the next price increase is comming.
One can not be sure if you can buy some
special emusions in 1 year, 3 years, or 7 years again.
One can't say what the price will be in 5
years. Everything is posible between
$4,89 and $24,96 - so you should buy most films today you can afford.
And freeze.....freeze. ....freeze....
I got a roll Polypan F (500ft) $63,95 =
100 films at $0,64 !!!
If I would have bought it 2 years earlier
I would have it at $ 0,29 per roll (135-36).
But it doesn't matter.
It is an emulsion with pore characteristics - but it is no lousy film in general.
And I can shot 10 films instead of
just one PanF.
It is just ok to snap shots.And with a good developer it is a great choice.
By the time, the price to 100 PanF is nearly over $600,-

....

with regards

Gerald C Koch · Jul 3, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
Exactly. I'm hoping we at APUG can make a list of such rebranded film.

So far, I use just Kodak and Ilford negative film. I do wonder who makes the 110 film Lomography sells.

pdeeh said:
The trouble with the question is that the answers are always going to be speculative, although some will be more well-evidenced than others (e.g. yes, anything marked "Made in UK" will have come from Harman's factory, and the film with Foma edge-marking that comes out of a box marked Arista is probably Foma)

The only people who actually know who makes what film are the manufacturers and those who package or distribute the film. And they, for reasons of commercial confidentiality, will not be telling.

If someone comes along and tells you that (e.g.) "Bergger 400 is definitely Kentmere 400" (or whatever) then I'd take such pseudo-authoritative statements with a large grain of salt. (the salt of your choice. Sodium bromide is fine, as is Sodium chloride. Potassium fluoride not so much )

Then again rebranded films pop up all the time and disappear with similar rapidity. Such a list would be very hard to maintain.

Rebranded films

Gombrich

railwayman3

AgX

MattKing

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faberryman

MattKing

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Theo Sulphate

faberryman

Paul Howell

AgX

gioffry

Ian Grant

Old_Dick

Gombrich

pdeeh

Echoes

flavio81

MattKing

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MattKing

Moderator

Ian Grant

gioffry

thefizz

MattKing

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trendland

Gerald C Koch

Rebranded films

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