Really, really out of date film...

I have been shooting some 35mm HP5 (expired 1983) and some FORTEPAN 400 (expiry unknown, but probably 80's at best). I developed both rolls in D-76, 10 minutes @ 20 degrees. The HP5 is very dense (outside of frame also) so I assume I over developed it?

Fortepan came out a little light all over - might need an extra minute perhaps? I think I have got this right...

I would like to wet print from these films if I can, but for now have just scanned with OK results. Both are obviously pretty grainy and contrasty - the Foretpan more so (I guess because it was underexposed) but I really like it's 'look'. A bit like a 1600 Tri-X ;-) Obviously my scanner software compensated somewhat but don't expect my printing to be as easy.

I just wanted a bit of advice on how I could proceed before I wet print. I know I shouldn't be using films so out-of-date but loads and loads of free film is soooo attractive to my pay check! ha ha. Plus, I have to be honest and say I quite like the results - especially the Fortepan. Any help appreciated.

What's the issue here? Make a test strip and proceed as normal.

mesh said:

I have been shooting some 35mm HP5 (expired 1983) and some FORTEPAN 400 (expiry unknown, but probably 80's at best). I developed both rolls in D-76, 10 minutes @ 20 degrees. The HP5 is very dense (outside of frame also) so I assume I over developed it?

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Isn't dense-outside-of-frame the very definition of base fog? Unless you mean just the edge markings look overdeveloped.

Duncan

I'd like to know if I can improve the quality of my negs first rather, than compensating afterwards. I would like to improve my developing for future rolls using these films. I am only a beginner, but I thought that would be the best route. clayne - Is it better to forget about the developing and just work off test strips?

Thanks Duncan - so that means the film is pretty well dead? I assume then changes in development time wont help much? It certainly is the entire film.

mesh said:

Thanks Duncan - so that means the film is pretty well dead? I assume then changes in development time wont help much? It certainly is the entire film.

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It's base fog. This can be printed through in a lot of cases. The way you handle old film is to over-expose (pull) the film.

Thanks clayne - much appreciated.

I still have a few rolls of very old Fortepan 400. I sometimes use it as a test film for when I've fixed a camera or want to test one off eBay before I stick a decent film through it. I shot and developed a roll last weekend, as it happened. I rate it at 100 ISO rather than 400 (I always reckoned it was best at 200, even when fresh, so that's just an extra stop for me...) The base fog essentially loses some film speed. Some developers seem to make the fog a bit worse (like D-76!), others minimise it (e.g. universal ones). You can use special developers and additives but I really can't see the point unless you discover a an old film in a camera that might have pictures of the Loch Ness monster or Big Foot on it, or something. Much easier and cheaper to use a fresh film, unless you have a few boxes of 8 X 10 to use up.

I used to use DK50 for old films because it was nice and squeeky clean - but this last film I used Rodinal and it came out ok, considering the 'develop before' date was about 20 years ago

The fog increases printing time, but otherwise I expect it will print ok...

It can be attacked by overexposure, and then developing in a warmish concentrated developr to keep development times short. Base fog gets worse the longer it is in the developer.

I have some Ferrania 120 from mid 60's, likely 50 or 100EI when new now effective at EI 12. I process it in D76 full strength at about 75F. Other developers may work better. I have theorized that adding more restrainer to the film developer (boosting the KBR/L) should hold back fog, just like it will in outdated papers, but at the expense of film speed. I think the speed would be at least halved with higher KBr.