Really bad smell while developing

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

Yesterday, I used my local public darkroom for the first time and before starting I realized all the chemicals where at least 10 years outdated but being pretty adventurous myself I started developing anyway. By the way this is my first time developing film. So basically when I poured the 20 year old stop it actually smelt so bad, like, I cant explain how rank it was. My nose burned so bad if I breathed so I had to step outside and hold my breath when I came back in. Anyway, is this dangerous? I used a mask, gloves, and protective glasses and I only breathed in once. I feel perfectly fine too. Just wondering thanks.

MattKing · Apr 10, 2018

Sounds like it was the concentrated stock, not the diluted working solution.
You don't want to use it at full concentrated strength!
What colour was it? Bright yellow or orange, or a pale straw colour? If bright, it is the concentrate.

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

MattKing said:
Sounds like it was the concentrated stock, not the diluted working solution.
You don't want to use it at full concentrated strength!
What colour was it? Bright yellow or orange, or a pale straw colour? If bright, it is the concentrate.

It was a somewhat dark orange

pentaxuser · Apr 10, 2018

Is this a public darkroom that expects each user to provide his own chemicals? I find it difficult to believe that whoever is in charge has not changed the stop for 20 years. Strange thing is that you make no mention of developer. So does each user provide his/her own developer but is provided with stop and fixer.

For economy I'd imagine that a public darkroom would use highly concentrated acetic acid stop but in this form would not want users to handle it. Could you have gotten hold of or have been given concentrated acetic acid and the public darkroom expected you to know to dilute it. Highly concentrated acid can be very pungent. Could this be the case?

A lot more questions than answers. You need to tell us more to get to an answer

pentaxuser

Kino · Apr 10, 2018

If your negatives rolled up tightly to the shape of a pencil, then you got the undiluted stuff...

I did that once very early in one of my first darkroom experiences!

removedacct1 · Apr 10, 2018

If the chemistry you used belongs to you, and not what was provided by the public darkroom, then you would be wise to chuck it all out and buy fresh. Secondly, expired chemistry can degrade in nasty ways so you could have exposed yourself and others to dangerous fumes, yes. (If you poured undiluted acetic acid stop bath into the film canister, the fumes were indeed potentially dangerous to you and those around you. But its unclear whether or not that's what you did. Its reasonable to assume that all purchased chemistry is intended to be diluted with water before use: read the labels) Its irresponsible to bring severely outdated chemistry to a public darkroom, IMO.

Ian Grant · Apr 10, 2018

Acetic acid stop bath won't go off, I'm using acetic acid that's well over 20 years old. You DO need to read the instructions and dilute the Indicator Stopbath

Ian

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

pentaxuser said:
Is this a public darkroom that expects each user to provide his own chemicals? I find it difficult to believe that whoever is in charge has not changed the stop for 20 years. Strange thing is that you make no mention of developer. So does each user provide his/her own developer but is provided with stop and fixer.

For economy I'd imagine that a public darkroom would use highly concentrated acetic acid stop but in this form would not want users to handle it. Could you have gotten hold of or have been given concentrated acetic acid and the public darkroom expected you to know to dilute it. Highly concentrated acid can be very pungent. Could this be the case?

A lot more questions than answers. You need to tell us more to get to an answer

pentaxuser

When I talked with the man he said they provide chemicals. The developer was dektol and the jug said it was prepared in 1986 the only thing not badly outdated was the fix which was prepared in 2003. To add, the developer had a lot of small white specs in it almost like thick table salt. I think what happened is no one has used the darkroom in a long time so no one has prepared any new chems (there was a lot of unopened developer laying around). The thermometer didn't even work either and all of the tanks were metal. I diluted the stop by the way it didn't help with the smell, instantly when I opened the stop jug it smelt really bad and that's when my nose burned. To be specific I poured 60ml of stop and 240 ml of water but that doesn't really matter it was simply opening the jug that did it.

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

paulbarden said:
If the chemistry you used belongs to you, and not what was provided by the public darkroom, then you would be wise to chuck it all out and buy fresh. Secondly, expired chemistry can degrade in nasty ways so you could have exposed yourself and others to dangerous fumes, yes. (If you poured undiluted acetic acid stop bath into the film canister, the fumes were indeed potentially dangerous to you and those around you. But its unclear whether or not that's what you did. Its reasonable to assume that all purchased chemistry is intended to be diluted with water before use: read the labels) Its irresponsible to bring severely outdated chemistry to a public darkroom, IMO.

It was the darkroom chems and it came in a jug, the jug was full of it so I don't know how to dilute it without opening the jug and overflowing it.

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

Ian Grant said:
Acetic acid stop bath won't go off, I'm using acetic acid that's well over 20 years old. You DO need to read the instructions and dilute the Indicator Stopbath

Ian

The stop was in a jug that was completely full. I couldn't dilute it without it overflowing so I put 60ml into a cylinder and then added 240ml of water to dilute it. Just opening it made the room smell horrible.

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

Ian Grant said:
Acetic acid stop bath won't go off, I'm using acetic acid that's well over 20 years old. You DO need to read the instructions and dilute the Indicator Stopbath

Ian

Also there where no instructions it was is a gallon jug.

RattyMouse · Apr 10, 2018

Sounds like well run organization.

JCook0113 · Apr 10, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Sounds like well run organization.

It's cheap and it ended up working so I can't complain

David Brown · Apr 10, 2018

JCook0113 said:
Also there where no instructions it was is a gallon jug.

We really can't help you since we don't know what exactly you were dealing with. I would not use 10-20 year old chems just on principle. None of this stuff is that expensive and none of it is harmful when used according to directions! Please do some research and get some help from someone. We (here on Photrio) are happy to help, but we need more information.

Kodak Indicator Stop bath (which is dark yellow in color) is diluted 1:63 for use. What was in the jug may have been (and probably was) already diluted, but we and you don't know.

removedacct1 · Apr 10, 2018

JCook0113 said:
When I talked with the man he said they provide chemicals. The developer was dektol and the jug said it was prepared in 1986 the only thing not badly outdated was the fix which was prepared in 2003. To add, the developer had a lot of small white specs in it almost like thick table salt. I think what happened is no one has used the darkroom in a long time so no one has prepared any new chems (there was a lot of unopened developer laying around). The thermometer didn't even work either and all of the tanks were metal. I diluted the stop by the way it didn't help with the smell, instantly when I opened the stop jug it smelt really bad and that's when my nose burned. To be specific I poured 60ml of stop and 240 ml of water but that doesn't really matter it was simply opening the jug that did it.

I'm having difficulty imagining there is a darkroom open to the public that supplies its users with chemistry that was "prepared in 1986". I am also having difficulty imaging that thirty year old Dektol produced an image on film at all. *shrug*

MattKing · Apr 10, 2018

JCook0113 said:
It was a somewhat dark orange

That is the concentrate - most likely the Kodak variety. It is strong stuff!
For the Kodak version, to make working solution, you add just 5 ml of the concentrate to 315 ml water.
The working solution you made up was much stronger than necessary.
But you survived, so probably no permanent damage done .
As for all the old chemicals with 1986 and similar labeling, most likely the dates on the labeling isn't accurately updated, but the chemicals are too old anyways (with the possible exception of the stop bath).
One thing to look at carefully. I would be very, very, very leary about handling a several decades old gallon jug of Kodak stop bath concentrate. That stuff is a strong acid, and bottles get brittle over time. If the bottle were to split and spill the concentrate on you it would be unhealthy at best.
If you spill a drop of that concentrate on a counter, it can quickly bleach out the colour of the countertop.

Down Under · Apr 11, 2018

Ha!. Are you sure it isn't your pictures that stink?

Okay, I apologise! I take back this remark until such time as you post your work, then we can decide...

Truly, in my time in photography I've seen some awful community/shared darkrooms, and yours sounds like a lost cause. It must be high time the place has a complete clean-up, stock take and equipment, chemistry, paper etc (whatever the place provides as part of its so-called "service") is reassessed, especially the latter two, on the basis of "when it doubt, throw it out!".

It may well be that the chemicals and enlarging paper are provided by the users - in which case the same comment (and rule) applies, but directed at your good self.

Your comment, "It's cheap and it ended up working so I can't complain" is a sure-fire recipe for disaster. Using outdated wet materials in the darkroom is false economy and will lead to problems, at the time or down the track. B&W film and paper chemistry is relatively inexpensive. You shouldn't play 'sillybuggers' (a true-blue, dinky-di old Aussie term, not meant to be sexist or insulting) with it.

For stop bath, I always err on the side of caution, and use it somewhat more diluted than Kodak's instructions. Aso as a one-session mix. Use it for your work at the time and then throw it out.

This is also good advice for all one's chemistry, I believe. Film and paper. Use one time, then out it goes.

mshchem · Apr 11, 2018

When I was a kid, my Dad and I printed together. One day I decided to take a crack at it myself solo. I was maybe ten. I poured glacial acetic acid into an Ace hard rubber tray. I remember that part vividly. I evacuated, my Dad braved the fumes and took care of it .

Then there was the time I decided to sublimate elemental Iodine crystals in a Pyrex custard dish . I had a little bench an old ring stand and a Bunsen burner. I forgot that once Pyrex gets hot, it takes a while to cool down. It turned a white cabinet a shade of purple that lasted 20 years . Needless to say we never had any thyroid issues as the basement had plenty of Iodine collected about.

The good old days.

pentaxuser · Apr 11, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Sounds like well run organization.

Just outside but part of the public darkroom staff there was a fat guy with a moustache and a thin smaller guy who may have been a Brit trying to push a piano up several flights of steps

Dektol developer made up in 1986 !!!! On that point, OP, how well did the Dektol developer work? If it produced good prints then this has to be a world record for longevity, doesn't it It has to knock Ethol LPD into a "cocked hat" as the British expression goes

I am not trying to make fun of your experience but the whole thing literally beggars belief. It has to be worst run darkroom in the whole of the U.S. surely?

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Apr 11, 2018

JCook0113 said:
It's cheap and it ended up working so I can't complain

Can you say which parts worked?. I am sure you are not lying but do you really mean that you were given a jug of working strength Dektol that was made up in 1986 and it produced a good print?

As David Brown and others have said we need to know more about exactly what you were given, when it was made up etc. If it was full strength stop then diluting it 1+4 as you did still leaves it incredibly strong and capable of producing the symptoms you describe but I cannot quite believe that a member of staff would give you 60mls of concentrated stop and suggest that a 1+4 dilution was correct.

In effect the darkroom is wasting money and irritating your lungs by giving you 60mls of concentrated stop and at the same time expecting you to use 32 year old developer!

Your whole experience intrigues me. There is a mystery here that I and others no doubt would like to solve but like the Marie Celeste mystery we need more info.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Apr 11, 2018

JCook0113 said:
It was a somewhat dark orange

That sounds like undiluted stop bath. If so, other than smelling strong undiluted, it will still work when diluted.

Arklatexian · Apr 11, 2018

pentaxuser said:
Can you say which parts worked?. I am sure you are not lying but do you really mean that you were given a jug of working strength Dektol that was made up in 1986 and it produced a good print?

As David Brown and others have said we need to know more about exactly what you were given, when it was made up etc. If it was full strength stop then diluting it 1+4 as you did still leaves it incredibly strong and capable of producing the symptoms you describe but I cannot quite believe that a member of staff would give you 60mls of concentrated stop and suggest that a 1+4 dilution was correct.

In effect the darkroom is wasting money and irritating your lungs by giving you 60mls of concentrated stop and at the same time expecting you to use 32 year old developer!

Your whole experience intrigues me. There is a mystery here that I and others no doubt would like to solve but like the Marie Celeste mystery we need more info.

Thanks

pentaxuser

There is no way, in my experience, that concentrated Dektol would be usable after, probably one year, even if kept in a brown glass bottle and to say that Dektol, mixed fifty or sixty years ago is usable is ridiculas. It would be black as pitch and have crystals floating around in it. If a label on the bottle said mixed in 1986, there is no way of knowing how old it is. If the time you spent taking the pictures and developing the film is important to you, don't use developer/chemicals that you don't know the history of in making the prints. The print is the reason that you have already gone to so much trouble. It is just as important as the film you pick, the film developer you use. You already have a monetary investment in your photographs. Don't waste it using crap to make the prints. I have seen people take good negatives, make prints and try to develop them in 4 day old Dektol in an open tray, that had gone black and then blame the Dektol. As we learn time after time, when all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS......Regards!

Craig · Apr 11, 2018

MattKing said:
That stuff is a strong acid

May I be pedantic? Kodak Stop Bath is Acetic acid, which is not a strong acid, in chemistry terms. It may be concentrated, and it may be dangerous to handle without suitable PPE, but it cannot ever be a strong acid because it does not disassociate completely in water. Pedant off

MattKing · Apr 12, 2018

Craig said:
May I be pedantic? Kodak Stop Bath is Acetic acid, which is not a strong acid, in chemistry terms. It may be concentrated, and it may be dangerous to handle without suitable PPE, but it cannot ever be a strong acid because it does not disassociate completely in water. Pedant off

You may be .
I slipped up, because "strong acid" has a technical meaning.
I should have said something like Craig's "concentrated acid and it may be dangerous to handle without suitable ..."
In its usual amateur size packaging, I don't think handling Kodak Stop Bath requires anything more than prudent care in handling, but in an old gallon jug, Personal Protection Equipment may very well be necessary!

pentaxuser · Apr 12, 2018

I don't know about others but my interest now is selfish in that this one is a puzzle that needs solving for my sake. If it helps the OP then so much the better but either way we need more info.

He says it all worked which suggests that the prints were fine so here's a possibility. He appears to be given a jug of Dektol on which it say was prepared in 1986. Could it be that the "giver" of the jug is the employee charged with preparing jugs of fresh Dektol for each customer as required and what he got was fresh Dektol in an empty jug that still had a date of 1986 on it? This would explain why it worked.

By that token he may have been given a jug of stop from a large tank that had already been diluted and needed on a further 1+4 for use. If this is nearer the mark this still leaves the puzzle of why the stop was so pungent. I cannot reconcile this except possibly for the very long shot that the OP or his lungs are very sensitive to even highly dilute acid stop bath

Can you help me/ us out here, OP

Thanks

pentaxuser, owner of an old Mac, car and Bassett Hound

Really bad smell while developing

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