"Real" Cameras Out in Force

bill schwab · Jul 24, 2006

Yesterday I was wandering around The Henry Ford and Greenfield Village near my home here... something I do a couple times a week with my boy... and have been noticing what I hope is a trend. Millions of pictures are taken here by tourists from all over the world and I always take note of the cameras I see people using. It is no surprise that for some time now the great majority of these cameras are of the d*gital point and shoot variety. However I am noticing a few more folks carrying film cameras again as of late. In fact yesterday I saw no less than 8 people walking around shooting film including 3 different people with Leica gear. Anyone else noticing this anywhere else?

Also... I was in my favorite camera store (Adray) afterward and mentioned this to my usual sales friends. Although they had no input on any "trend", they did tell me that sales of d*gital gear was down significantly. This was not being offset by film camera sales however, but they did tell me that film sales are consistently strong as is their c-41 processing service. They said comments and complaints have been common about the huge expense of consistently upgrading d*gital gear. One went so far as saying that he thought the digital gravy train was coming to an end and many have expressed frustration that the process is not as easy and fulfilling as is widely reported. In fact, I got the distinct impression that they were a little worried about he drop in business.

Anyone else with similar experience? Could this be a localized thing, or could it be the pendulum starting a swing back? Obviously I am not naive and don't hold out hopes that film will ever be what it once was, but I am interested to hear if others are noticing a shift, or at least a leveling off of the playing field.

Bill

FrankB · Jul 24, 2006

We've just had three weeks of graduation ceremonies and I'm very sorry to say that pretty much all the proud parents were doin' the digital wiggle. The only chap I saw using film was the pro LF'er doing the group shots.

Sorry!

battra92 · Jul 24, 2006

Kind of localized thing, I assume. I saw one person on Main St. in my town (which is starting to become 'artsy') using a LF camera of some sort. I tend to be the only guy who isn't holding his camera at arm's length getting blurred snapshots or relying on some Image stabilization' feature. My arms propped into my midsection and camera to my eye are my stabilization (and sometimes a tripod too, of course.)

I did see one guy at the fair the other day with a film SLR. Not sure on what kind or anything. The saddest thing was seeing some box and folding cameras win 1st prize in the antique building. Heck, those cameras should be out and in use!

Brac · Jul 24, 2006

The photographic press here have quoted a major lab Peak Imaging (who have updated their processing lines & gone into new premises) as saying that mkany photographers are returning to film for medium & large format prints because of the size of print they can get while retaining quality. They cite 20 x 16 inches & above. They go on to say that many fine-art, product and landscape photographers are showing signs of preference towards film and many are returning to 120 and 5" x 4" for large format prints. They also offer all the usual digital services so have no particular axe to grind.

Elsewhere I've heard of professional photographers who need to keep their images long-term are archiving digital images onto film. That doesn't surprise me when I think of the number of hard discs and other media that I and various friends have had go completely dead in just a few years.

mark · Jul 24, 2006

I rode the Durango Silverton Narrow Guage Railroad a few weeks ago and saw lots of film cameras. Where I live the one use film camera is king. There is always a line at the Wal Mart photo lab. Of course, I live in a very poor area of the country where some folks still do not have electricity, and even more do not have running water. I am also a teacher and last year, out of 100 sixth graders I asked, only about 12 had a computer in their house. A lot had PSPs, or other gaming device. There is not a real need to own a computer out here, and that kills the digital camera market.

Of course this will change. This area has Gvt subsidised cell phone service. Yep your tax dollars at work. There is a plan in the works to put a computer in as many homes as possible, with free internet connection also subsidized by the Gvt. This will change the face of photography out here so it looks like everywhere else. Digital.

battra92 · Jul 24, 2006

mark said:
I rode the Durango Silverton Narrow Guage Railroad a few weeks ago and saw lots of film cameras. Where I live the one use film camera is king. There is always a line at the Wal Mart photo lab.

Interesting. Around here you still see a lot of those one time use cameras. I think they still have a place for those people who only take pictures on vacation. I've also noticed that they seem to sell well with the older crowd who never had more than a regular point and shoot.

My younger sister used to use them as well, but then she bought a point and shoot 35mm.

donbga · Jul 24, 2006

billschwab said:
Yesterday I was wandering around The Henry Ford and Greenfield Village near my home here... something I do a couple times a week with my boy... and have been noticing what I hope is a trend. Millions of pictures are taken here by tourists from all over the world and I always take note of the cameras I see people using. It is no surprise that for some time now the great majority of these cameras are of the d*gital point and shoot variety. However I am noticing a few more folks carrying film cameras again as of late. In fact yesterday I saw no less than 8 people walking around shooting film including 3 different people with Leica gear. Anyone else noticing this anywhere else?

Also... I was in my favorite camera store (Adray) afterward and mentioned this to my usual sales friends. Although they had no input on any "trend", they did tell me that sales of d*gital gear was down significantly. This was not being offset by film camera sales however, but they did tell me that film sales are consistently strong as is their c-41 processing service. They said comments and complaints have been common about the huge expense of consistently upgrading d*gital gear. One went so far as saying that he thought the digital gravy train was coming to an end and many have expressed frustration that the process is not as easy and fulfilling as is widely reported. In fact, I got the distinct impression that they were a little worried about he drop in business.

Anyone else with similar experience? Could this be a localized thing, or could it be the pendulum starting a swing back? Obviously I am not naive and don't hold out hopes that film will ever be what it once was, but I am interested to hear if others are noticing a shift, or at least a leveling off of the playing field.

Bill

Well,

I attended a HS graduation ceremony in may, with thousands of people in attendance. I was the only person there that I noticed using a film camera. And I was making an effort to see what gear folks were using. The event was held outdoors in a stadium. The actual event started very late so I had a lot of time to mill about taking candids of the crowd.

IMO, film usage will continue to decline in the recreational market, especailly now that high quality DSLRs are getting less expensive. On the par price wise with 35 mm SLRs. Also the newest 5 and 6 megapixel point and shoots have been widely adopted since they are now much more capable than digital P&S from a couple of years ago. And they are easy to use and easy to have color prints made at the local photo kiosk.

That said, digital cameras sales were predicted to flatten out this year. Since most new film camera manufacturing has slowly gone kaput, its likely that digital cameras will slowly dominate almost all of recreation photography.

I agree with John of J and C, that film will continue to be around, but become more and more expensive.

Andy K · Jul 24, 2006

I was in PC World today looking for something to transfer files from my old computer to the new one. I explained to the young (about 22) assistant that I would be transferring several gigabytes of scans of photographs and scans of negatives. He said "Ah yes, I prefer to use film too, it gives me hardcopy I can never get from these" as he gestured to a cabinet of digicams.

There is hope!

Jim Chinn · Jul 24, 2006

At large "photogenic" activites I see mostly dgitial, and more and more DSLRs then ever before. A lot depends on the age of the person. Older folks with kids have higher end cameras. I see lots of college and high school kids simply using their cell phone cameras. When I do see film cameras it is most likely someone with a disposable. If I look long enough I will see someone with a Nikon, Canon or Minolta film camera.

Jack Lusted · Jul 24, 2006

Saw a chap at the local primary school sports day wielding a Zenit E with telephoto lens - one of out local farmers as it happens. All the trendy mums had their d*gtal cameras, the cool dad's their dslr's, the grans and grandads with disposables. So I wasn't alone - quite.

Andy K · Jul 24, 2006

Jack Lusted said:
Saw a chap at the local primary school sports day wielding a Zenit E with telephoto lens - one of out local farmers as it happens. All the trendy mums had their d*gtal cameras, the cool dad's their dslr's, the grans and grandads with disposables. So I wasn't alone - quite.

Cool Dads use film.

anyte · Jul 24, 2006

I recently two teens/young adults downtown (if you can call one block "downtown") with what appeared to be a TLR. They were photographing the garage door of one of the historic buildings in the city.

I really don't think age is a factor in choosing whether to shoot film or a digi.

Jerry Basierbe · Jul 24, 2006

I'll be at the EAA Fly In at Oshkosh, Wisconson tomorrow and I'll try to pay attention to what I see being used.

bill schwab · Jul 24, 2006

anyte said:
I really don't think age is a factor in choosing whether to shoot film or a digi.

I've heard and read several sources stating that younger people in schools and such have actually had more interest in film as of late.

B.

Gerald Koch · Jul 24, 2006

Such events as graduations bring out the 'instamatic' in most people. Digital PS being the modern equivalent.

While film usage will never return its former state, some people are going back. There are several reason but one is storage of digital files. CD's are not archival and then there is the question of media obsolescence.

battra92 · Jul 24, 2006

billschwab said:
I've heard and read several sources stating that younger people in schools and such have actually had more interest in film as of late.

I'm the equipment manager of my photo club at college and it amazes me at how many of the kids coming in as freshmen with their 5MP digicams get so fascinated learning how to develop their own film.

JBrunner · Jul 24, 2006

When I'm out someplace with the 2D, and there are people about, many come by and ask questions. The soccer moms, and flash car crowd are curious, but seem to view me as some kind of living museum.

The younger people, however, ask questions like "How much does it cost? Where do you get a camera like that? Is it hard to learn?" and say things like "I'd like to try that"

I think part of it is the inherent cool factor of being different, and the other part is that for a young person there is no geewhiz wow factor to digital, and they aren't out to defend the technology. They don't have a digital chip on their shoulder. To them it would be rather like sticking up for a toaster. As far as they are concerned, digital shooting is a completeley pedestrian activity, while the view camera, or any film camera, is exciting and new. The young folks I have showed an 8x10 contact print to, have been awestruck.

raucousimages · Jul 24, 2006

I am re-opening my portrait studio later this year and have been talking to the two largest labs in salt Lake (Nichols photolab and Borg B. Anderson and Asoc.)about their wet process work. I need to know what services they will be providing in the future. They both told me they have had a small but steady increase in film over the last two years. Most of that has been in 120 and 4X5 much of it is coming from out of state and plan to stay in the wet end as long as there is a market. There has also been a steady use of traditional color enlargements especialy from LF negs but not the increase as seen in film use. Both labs have been in buisness a long time and both see no end to film or their involvement in wet process work. The latest trend seems to be (other than pure digital) film with digital prints.

Wigwam Jones · Jul 24, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
There are several reason but one is storage of digital files. CD's are not archival and then there is the question of media obsolescence.

Multiple copies, offsite storage, and upgrades to newer technology when it becomes available. It is what banks do with your money - it works.

Archival film is subject to 'single-point-of-failure' loss:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0112/07/ltm.09.html

And some were 'saved' by inferior non-archival digital technology:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/23/national/main579722.shtml

eric · Jul 24, 2006

Just came back from the Philippines (read my thread on x-ray machines). I was in Tagaytay resort. A volcano lake inside another lake.

At the resort, a Filipino man (educated in UCLA) came up to me and said "Is that a Hasselblad?! Can I hold it? Wow!" He said his future brother in law is a photo bug but only digital. Met him a few hours later and he was entralled with the Hassy. He loved holding it and looking through it.

Didzis · Jul 25, 2006

OK, some more unverifiable anecdotes that really do not prove anything.
Two weeks ago, I went to my neighbouring town that had its 800 year anniversary. I was very surprised to see lots of people using film cameras. They mostly were point-and-shoots, but some older Russian gear as well, like Zenits. Most people with those point-and-shoots were elderly, and I believe they figured they don't need to spend lots of money on digicam if they only shoot some film every now and then. And then there were some young posers with film SLRs, like yours truly
Then previous weekend I went to visit my girlfriend's family. They live by the sea, so their friends usually drop by to relax. I had my Zenit and Stereo Realist with me, and everybody was truly fascinated. One guy after trying my Realist said he could not understand why on earth he got a digicam; the shutter lag means taking snapshots is really hard (and he has two little kids who won't sit still), and, as an additional bonus, Realist is 3D! Plus, you can see the image in viewfinder even in bright daylight.
I mostly live in Riga now, and lots of tourists come there in summer. Most of them do have digicams, but there are people with either single-use p&s or -- and that was really nice -- people with Nikon or Canon SLRs. They probably spent significant amount of money on their gear and don't want to switch since that would cost too much. Instead, they spend the money travelling
To top it all off, I've been preaching on the virtues of film to all my friends, lending them film cameras and film to try out. All of them completely enjoy the experience, and some of them have moved on to purchasing their own FEDs or Zenits (the rest simply keep my cameras )
So yeah, I believe there is future for film, probably mainly based on those who really enjoy the process and/or do not want to switch for some reason.

reggie · Jul 25, 2006

After listening to conversation among some groups of people (regular folks, not true photographers), they are expecting cell phones to start incorporating better MP3 players and digital cameras in the near future. They like the idea of the multi-use phones a lot and said they are holding out for these new phones rather than spend money on a phone, an MP3 player and a digicam. So, if this is a prevalent attitude, this may just be a temporary slump. But then when these devices are released, ditigal cameras will face competition from a pretty versatile device as will iPods.

I have already seen some previews of these cell phones on C-net, but I don't recall the make\models. I am sure they will be available in Japan and elsewhere long before the US.

-R

Andy K · Jul 25, 2006

reggie said:
I have already seen some previews of these cell phones on C-net, but I don't recall the make\models. I am sure they will be available in Japan and elsewhere long before the US.

-R

We already have them. See here. I don't knowthat people who like this sort of stuff really care about the camera/mp3 quality. They just want one item in their pocket instead of three.

bob100684 · Aug 10, 2006

billschwab said:
Yesterday I was wandering around The Henry Ford and Greenfield Village near my home here... something I do a couple times a week with my boy... and have been noticing what I hope is a trend. Millions of pictures are taken here by tourists from all over the world and I always take note of the cameras I see people using. It is no surprise that for some time now the great majority of these cameras are of the d*gital point and shoot variety. However I am noticing a few more folks carrying film cameras again as of late. In fact yesterday I saw no less than 8 people walking around shooting film including 3 different people with Leica gear. Anyone else noticing this anywhere else?

Also... I was in my favorite camera store (Adray) afterward and mentioned this to my usual sales friends. Although they had no input on any "trend", they did tell me that sales of d*gital gear was down significantly. This was not being offset by film camera sales however, but they did tell me that film sales are consistently strong as is their c-41 processing service. They said comments and complaints have been common about the huge expense of consistently upgrading d*gital gear. One went so far as saying that he thought the digital gravy train was coming to an end and many have expressed frustration that the process is not as easy and fulfilling as is widely reported. In fact, I got the distinct impression that they were a little worried about he drop in business.

Anyone else with similar experience? Could this be a localized thing, or could it be the pendulum starting a swing back? Obviously I am not naive and don't hold out hopes that film will ever be what it once was, but I am interested to hear if others are noticing a shift, or at least a leveling off of the playing field.

Bill

In the past 3 years at my decidedly consumer photo lab..... We have proscessed around the same amount of film/day within a 5 roll/day average difference, we however have been printing MANY MANY more digital pictures. My heart lies with film, but I'm loving the digital people cuz it makes me look good at work.

isaacc7 · Aug 11, 2006

billschwab said:
Also... I was in my favorite camera store (Adray) afterward and mentioned this to my usual sales friends. Although they had no input on any "trend", they did tell me that sales of d*gital gear was down significantly. This was not being offset by film camera sales however, but they did tell me that film sales are consistently strong as is their c-41 processing service. They said comments and complaints have been common about the huge expense of consistently upgrading d*gital gear. One went so far as saying that he thought the digital gravy train was coming to an end and many have expressed frustration that the process is not as easy and fulfilling as is widely reported. In fact, I got the distinct impression that they were a little worried about he drop in business.

Anyone else with similar experience? Could this be a localized thing, or could it be the pendulum starting a swing back? Obviously I am not naive and don't hold out hopes that film will ever be what it once was, but I am interested to hear if others are noticing a shift, or at least a leveling off of the playing field.

Bill

Both film processing and film sales are way way down here (the DC area). We are printing much more from digital than from film, both in the lab and with the "instant" kiosks. We now keep about half as much film as we used to, if it weren't for the school near by, it would be even less. I see zero indication of increased interest in film, film photography, or film equipment. If anything, I see a continuing decline as there are fewer and fewer reasons for the average consumer to hang onto film shooting. When it comes to buying equipment, almost nobody is buying film gear, of course there's very little to offer anymore. Sorry to present what would be considered negative on this site, but digital is king in equipment sales, photofinishing, and (believe it or not) consumer satisfaction. I have yet to hear of any of my customers going back to film once they start using a high quality digital camera even if they do have problems. For now we're still stocking all of the current films from Fuji and Kodak and we still have a decent selection of darkroom chemicals, but I don't think it'll be much longer before they come up with a more profitable use of that space...

Isaac

"Real" Cameras Out in Force

bill schwab

Advertiser

FrankB

battra92

Brac

mark

battra92

donbga

Andy K

Jim Chinn

Jack Lusted

Andy K

anyte

Jerry Basierbe

bill schwab

Advertiser

Gerald Koch

battra92

JBrunner

Moderator

raucousimages

Wigwam Jones

eric

Didzis

reggie

Andy K

bob100684

isaacc7

"Real" Cameras Out in Force

Advertiser

Advertiser

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency