RB67 ProS light seals, camera straps, peel apart negatives, and floating elements

clingfilm · Jan 7, 2017

I just started here yesterday so if I cross any rules I apologise - I've read through the last few months of medium format posts and there seems to be a real wealth of knowledge on here so I thought I'd give it a go with my questions.

I got an RB67 ProS for Christmas with 90mm f/3.8 C and 250mm f/4.5 lenses, a 120 ProS back, and a polaroid back (the one with the P adapter); and boy do I have some questions.

The light seal around the body where the film back attaches is totally funked and I noticed the seals around the mirror came off if I blew on them. I'm going to replace the seals around the back of the body; would it be worth replacing that around the mirror and also where the darkslide enters the film back while I'm at it? Would this all use the same, 2mm open cell foam?
I bought an OpTech medium format camera strap with the type B connector (after a full day of handholding the thing around London). It fits great on the camera but I'm just worried about the lugs and whether it's going to snap on me - should I be worried? What's the failure rate of this thing like?
I also have been shooting some FP100C and, after browsing here, have been really impressed with the reclaimed negatives people had been producing. Is this as easy as it looks in the videos (tape negative to glass, emulsion side down, spread bleach on the black matte back, rub off with gloved fingers under running water)?
Does anyone know a UK equivalent bleach to the Clorox brands in the US or does it not matter?
Does this process have to be done before the negative dries?
I've also read about floating elements on here a lot but from the forums posts (and http://rb67.helluin.org/lenses/) it isn't really clear what lenses actually have this floating element and which ones just have the plastic guide wheel

Like I said, sorry if this is in the wrong place, hope to hear from someone soon! (I've attached photos of my OpTech strap and the light seals)

clingfilm · Jan 7, 2017

Also if anyone has any advice to clean off the rust/foam junk from the back of my body then that'd be appreciated as well - at the moment I'm just going to use a cotton bud and some water.

pdeeh · Jan 7, 2017

You'll be better off posting one thread per question, in the appropriate forum for the subject, rather than starting one with half a dozen unrelated issues, all of which you want answers to.

Otherwise the thread is just going to be a horrible mishmash of different answers and questions, difficult to read and of not much use to anyone else searching APUG for help on similar issues.

Maybe delete and start over?

removed-user-1 · Jan 7, 2017

Ive refurbished quite a few cameras, usually with 91% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning old foam seals. For cleaning dirty leatherette, I just use water with a little dish detergent, and either a cotton swab or a soft toothbrush. Work on small areas at a time, and use *just enough* fluid.

When I built a single working RB out of two thrashed ones, I replaced all the seals, including the dark slide area.

clingfilm · Jan 7, 2017

pdeeh said:
You'll be better off posting one thread per question, in the appropriate forum for the subject, rather than starting one with half a dozen unrelated issues, all of which you want answers to.

Otherwise the thread is just going to be a horrible mishmash of different answers and questions, difficult to read and of not much use to anyone else searching APUG for help on similar issues.

Maybe delete and start over?

Hmm I think you're right.. How long do I have to leave between each post to avoid the spam filter?

pdeeh · Jan 7, 2017

I've no idea, I'm not an admin.

clingfilm · Jan 7, 2017

rthomas said:
Ive refurbished quite a few cameras, usually with 91% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning old foam seals. For cleaning dirty leatherette, I just use water with a little dish detergent, and either a cotton swab or a soft toothbrush. Work on small areas at a time, and use *just enough* fluid.

Is the leatherette what the bellows are made of? So the isopropyl will get all the horrible foam out and then I can just stick my new foam in. Do you know what the foam situation is in the darkslide slot? Is it just the usual glued in?

chassis · Jan 7, 2017

Strap and lugs are solid. I have the same or similar strap and have used it for years. I just shot a roll of film with my RB67 Pro S with badly deteriorated light seals and had no problems in the image area. Some *very* minimal light leaks on the edge of the film outside the image frame.

Do some google searches for RB67 lenses and you will read all you ever wanted to know, regarding your floating element lens question.

Kirks518 · Jan 7, 2017

In regards to the FP-100C - Yes, it's as easy as it shows in the videos. It's probably easiest if the 'negative' is dry. I have never tried, or even thought of doing it with them wet.
My preferred chemical of choice, is a bleach-based gel, usually used for cleaning toilets. I think mine is called something like a 'Cling-Gel', made by clorox, but any bleach will work. I like the gel type, as it isn't as runny.

Replace all the seals. If one needs replacing, the others aren't too far behind, and other then the mess, they're relatively easy to do.

Floating elements are really more for critical work. Somewhere out there, there is a suggestion of setting it to 'X' distance for normal work. When you focus the lens regularly, I personally can't see any difference when I move the FE, so I blissfully ignore it for the ,ost part when just out shooting. YMMV though.

The lugs are strong, I'm always more concerned about the actual strap being strong enough, but after 3+ years, I haven't had any issues.

Shoot. Enjoy. Repeat!

winger · Jan 7, 2017

I can't help with 1,2 or 4, but for #3 - yup, just that easy. Wear clothes you don't care about. Any gel with bleach should work. Liquid bleach will also work, but it runs more and has more of a chance of getting where you don't want it. I use a thick paper towel to wipe off the goo rather than fingers. If you can't find a gel with bleach, you might be able to soak some bleach into a thick paper towel and hold it on the back and then wipe. It might take a little longer, though. And I always do them after they're dry. I think they can stick to the glass if they're still wet and then you'd lose some of the image. I've done them after they'd been dry for over a year, too, and didn't have any issues.

Theo Sulphate · Jan 7, 2017

Welcome to APUG.

The newer 'C' 50mm and 65mm lenses have an additional focusing ring at the front of the lens.

The 140mm C Macro lens has an additional focusing ring back towards the mount.

Focusing of RB lenses is primarily with the knob on the body which racks the bellows and lens forward and back as you focus through the viewfinder. The floating element lenses allow for a more precise correction to the focus. You'll likely not see any change in your viewfinder.

Non-floating element lenses have a depth-of-field ring at the front -- this is merely to aid you in determining depth of field - it doesn't affect focus.

removed-user-1 · Jan 7, 2017

clingfilm said:
Is the leatherette what the bellows are made of? So the isopropyl will get all the horrible foam out and then I can just stick my new foam in. Do you know what the foam situation is in the darkslide slot? Is it just the usual glued in?

I don't remember the specifics of the film back seals, I know that a lot of screws had to come off; sorry, it was a long time ago now. The leatherette is just the covering on the camera, I don't know what the bellows material is made of. I would just clean that with a soft, dry cloth.

chuck94022 · Jan 7, 2017

Regarding negative bleaching/recovery: I've started with a dry negative, but washing it to remove the excess paper and gunk, which re-wets the neg. The negative nicely adhere's to the glass because it is now wet. Doing it this way, you don't need to tape it. If you exercise even a slight bit of care, the bleach doesn't get to the other side. I use the gel-type toilet bowl cleaner, any brand will do. I use a Q-tip to gently spread it. Spread the bleach and let it sit/work a bit. You can gently agitate it with the Q-tip while it works. After the bleach has lifted the black stuff just rinse it off, then rinse a bit more to help the negative lift from the glass. Then do a full rinse and hang to dry. I learned this technique from Peter Tsai (Chicago photographer, not sure if he's on this forum or not). It is very fast, because you avoid the taping time. I worried at first about not taping, but it never seems to be a problem.

clingfilm · Jan 7, 2017

Kirks518 said:
Replace all the seals. If one needs replacing, the others aren't too far behind, and other then the mess, they're relatively easy to do.

Do you have any advice on doing the seals around the mirror/darkslide? The one for the adapter seems relatively simple, but I'm not really sure about the other two - especially the darkslide one

MattKing · Jan 7, 2017

Jon Goodman used to sell really inexpensive kits with all the seal material cut exactly to size, accompanied by detailed instructions: http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html

Jon is great to deal with.

John Koehrer · Jan 7, 2017

I wouldn't worry about more than one question per post.
I didn't check the guideline/rules at the forum either though. There's an easy to use search function

clingfilm · Jan 8, 2017

MattKing said:
Jon Goodman used to sell really inexpensive kits with all the seal material cut exactly to size, accompanied by detailed instructions: http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/sealreplacement.html

Jon is great to deal with.

Aye, I just emailed him and he replied within like 6 hours - what a gem. He says it's going to be ~$40 for the seals for the mirror, adapter, and 120 back - which tbh seems quite fair seeing as it includes postage from the US.

flavio81 · Jan 8, 2017

clingfilm said:
I just started here yesterday so if I cross any rules I apologise - I've read through the last few months of medium format posts and there seems to be a real wealth of knowledge on here so I thought I'd give it a go with my questions.

I got an RB67 ProS for Christmas with 90mm f/3.8 C and 250mm f/4.5 lenses, a 120 ProS back, and a polaroid back (the one with the P adapter); and boy do I have some questions.

The light seal around the body where the film back attaches is totally funked and I noticed the seals around the mirror came off if I blew on them. I'm going to replace the seals around the back of the body; would it be worth replacing that around the mirror and also where the darkslide enters the film back while I'm at it? Would this all use the same, 2mm open cell foam?

I bought an OpTech medium format camera strap with the type B connector (after a full day of handholding the thing around London). It fits great on the camera but I'm just worried about the lugs and whether it's going to snap on me - should I be worried? What's the failure rate of this thing like?

I also have been shooting some FP100C and, after browsing here, have been really impressed with the reclaimed negatives people had been producing. Is this as easy as it looks in the videos (tape negative to glass, emulsion side down, spread bleach on the black matte back, rub off with gloved fingers under running water)?
Does anyone know a UK equivalent bleach to the Clorox brands in the US or does it not matter?
Does this process have to be done before the negative dries?

I've also read about floating elements on here a lot but from the forums posts (and http://rb67.helluin.org/lenses/) it isn't really clear what lenses actually have this floating element and which ones just have the plastic guide wheel

Klingfilm,
Congratulations! The RB is my favorite camera and i own two.

2. I use a strap that attaches to the tripod mount, like a QuikLok strap. It is a good alternative and the RB becomes easy to carry.

4. For the "C" series, only the 50mm and the 65mm although they just said the 140mm macro should have one as well. In any case, if there is a distances ring on the lens, and you move it, and some elements within the lens rotate or displace, then the lens has a floating system. For the K/L or L line of lenses, there are more of them with floating rings.

99. Tip: The more frequently you carry the Rb67 outside of a studio, the smaller and lighter it feels.

flavio81 · Jan 8, 2017

I would not dare to clean the bellows. It is too delicate in my opinion.

clingfilm · Jan 8, 2017

flavio81 said:
Klingfilm,
Congratulations! The RB is my favorite camera and i own two.

2. I use a strap that attaches to the tripod mount, like a QuikLok strap. It is a good alternative and the RB becomes easy to carry.

4. For the "C" series, only the 50mm and the 65mm although they just said the 140mm macro should have one as well. In any case, if there is a distances ring on the lens, and you move it, and some elements within the lens rotate or displace, then the lens has a floating system. For the K/L or L line of lenses, there are more of them with floating rings.

99. Tip: The more frequently you carry the Rb67 outside of a studio, the smaller and lighter it feels.

Thanks for the response Flavio! Yeah, it was quite comfortable carrying the RB mounted to a tripod but it just made me a bit nervous relying on the screw mount or tripod head so I think I'd be a little more at ease with it around my neck.

Mmm, I guess the problem is that all of the lenses have some sort of rotating thing on the lens - it's just that most of those are just a guide ring attached to nothing internal. My question is, how obvious is it if something is moving inside the lens? I'm pretty sure neither of my lenses have a floating element though.

I wasn't going to clean the bellows - if I did I'd probably just get a microfibre cloth for it.

flavio81 · Jan 8, 2017

clingfilm said:
Thanks for the response Flavio! Yeah, it was quite comfortable carrying the RB mounted to a tripod but it just made me a bit nervous relying on the screw mount or tripod head so I think I'd be a little more at ease with it around my neck.

Mmm, I guess the problem is that all of the lenses have some sort of rotating thing on the lens - it's just that most of those are just a guide ring attached to nothing internal. My question is, how obvious is it if something is moving inside the lens? I'm pretty sure neither of my lenses have a floating element though.

I wasn't going to clean the bellows - if I did I'd probably just get a microfibre cloth for it.

It is very obvious if you get a 50mm lens and watch the lens from the front while rotating the ring. A big part of the inner lens mechanism rotates and you can see it.

I just bought my first 65mm two days ago, and last week i repaired one of my RB67 cameras so i'm in full RB mode this week!

tedr1 · Jan 8, 2017

Here's a copy of the Mamiya lens instructions, this is a lo-res version, there may be higher res versions on the web

Chris Livsey · Jan 9, 2017

clingfilm said:
Aye, I just emailed him and he replied within like 6 hours - what a gem. He says it's going to be ~$40 for the seals for the mirror, adapter, and 120 back - which tbh seems quite fair seeing as it includes postage from the US.

If you are London based it may be worth popping into Aperture and asking a price for doing the job, they are very reasonable on Hasselblad seals.
http://www.apertureuk.com/Camera_Repairs_London.html

clingfilm · Jan 9, 2017

flavio81 said:
It is very obvious if you get a 50mm lens and watch the lens from the front while rotating the ring. A big part of the inner lens mechanism rotates and you can see it.

I just bought my first 65mm two days ago, and last week i repaired one of my RB67 cameras so i'm in full RB mode this week!

Ok, I'll be sure to look out for it then. That's good to hear; hope you get some good shots : )

clingfilm · Jan 9, 2017

tedr1 said:
Here's a copy of the Mamiya lens instructions, this is a lo-res version, there may be higher res versions on the web

Dude this is nice! Really comprehensive - and christ that 500mm is a beast

RB67 ProS light seals, camera straps, peel apart negatives, and floating elements

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