RB67 - Is it really THAT bad?

Wilcoxson David L. · Dec 12, 2008

The RB is one ripping fine camera! I used one in college (a Pro-S as I recall). They also had a Hassy 500C, itwas a very nice camera, but I preferred the RB. I lusted after one for years and was finally able to get one, a very sweet Pro-SD from KEH last year. Now when I go to use MF, I'm torn between my RB and my Rolleiflex. Thank God for D------ because now I can finally afford the cameras of my dreams. I think next on my list is an M3 Leica, but that may be a while yet.

Curt · Dec 12, 2008

On my ProS I put a laser cut seal, that I got from Japan, between the body and the adapter. I replaced the seals in all of the backs too. It's a good system but it can add up with additional lenses and accessories. Has anyone tried the m645 left hand grip on an RB? I have a complete Mamiya 645 setup and the grip fits on the RB, I thought that was interesting, the pins fit and the mirror trigger shutter release works. I have both the single action WLF and the lead brick Prism finder. No meter and no battery in the camera but it's a tough system.

keithwms · Dec 12, 2008

I do wish the RB left hand grip had an MLU detent. I don't like having to use a dual cable release or second release to get do mirror lockup. (minor complaint) So Curt are you saying you can do MLU with the m645 grip, on an RB? Not just fire the shutter?

Curt · Dec 13, 2008

The grip only depresses the lower right button on the RB body. If the lens is switched for combined mirror up and shutter release then the trigger on the grip lets the mirror up and fires the shutter. If the lens is switched off then the grip will push the body button and the mirror will go up but the lens will not fire. So the grip is good for combined mirror up and shutter release. I hope that's not too convoluted of an explanation.

On the Mamiya 645 there is a mirror up lever so one can use the grip, focus, keep the camera still, use the mirror up then use the trigger on the grip to fire the camera shutter. That's hard core mirror up handheld use. I did it in Paris and the photographs were fine. I just wanted to eliminate the mirror bounce if any. It takes a steady hand but handheld shooting does too. It works fine since the right hand is holding the body and the mirror up lever is right there.

For the RB a grip like the this with a two step, mirror up, then shutter fire, with a cable to the lens shutter would be nice but I don't know of any such grip. I'm refusing to spend $50.00 plus on a double cable release. The last time I use the camera on a tripod I used a cable release on the lens and pressed the mirror up on the body before the exposure.

The 645 grip physically fits the RB67 ProS model and if the lens if switched to sync with the mirror up function it will take an exposure. It's compact and easy to use. Because there are two pins in the grip it won't slip or turn, it stays right there tight. No interference with any back function either.

Rolleijoe · Dec 15, 2008

StorminMatt said:
With the prices what they are, I have REALLY been wanting to make the jump to medium format lately. And I can't help but notice that the Mamiya RB67 is about cheap as you can get in medium format without going with a Holga, Diana, or something by the Lomographic Society. This, of course appeals to me, along with the larger, detail-packed 6x7 frame (vs, say, 6x4.5). Of course, this can be increased to 6x8 as well with the power back. But it seems like most of what I see here about the RB67 is negative. I hear everything from stories of poor quality lenses to poor lens choices to the camera being SO heavy it is only suitable for studio use (I guess I've never seen one in person). Are all of these things basically true? Would I REALLY be better off spending a few hundred more on something else (because nothing else truly comes close when it comes to cheapness)?

They're basically a door stop with a lens on it weight-wise. When doing weddings on Maui, I used the Mamiya 7 which worked out much better. However, for personal shots I preferred my Rolleis.

I recently gave up 135 altogether, and went with Mamiya M645Pro (will be adding the "tl" body next month). I've been very pleased with the performance of the 401 grip, which has exceeded expectations battery-life wise.

Gave up 6x7, and would have preferred one of the Fuji 6x9s to replace 135 as that aspect ratio is more pleasing to my eyes. But that's just me.

Good luck with your choice.

viridari · Dec 15, 2008

StorminMatt said:
And I can't help but notice that the Mamiya RB67 is about cheap as you can get in medium format without going with a Holga, Diana, or something by the Lomographic Society.

You've not seen Bronicas?

The ETR-Si is usually much less expensive than an RB67. It's usually not hard to find a complete system cheap.

I noticed this one on Craigslist recently, listed by the local camera shop as a recent trade-in:

Bronica ETRSi w/75mm, 120 back....... 200.00

Usually their RB67's (and they always have a few in stock) are quite a bit more $$.

mjk · Dec 15, 2008

I have a friend at camera club who uses an RB-67 handheld all the time. Having been allowed to handle it, it actually handholds (IMHO) better than the typical high-end DSLR+ f/2.8 telezoom combo that most of the non-film shooters in the club use (aka everyone but me, my buddy and one other guy)

Lens-wise, the stopped down samples from out club's studio nights look great, but I'm not a fan of the way they look wide open.

Frank Szabo · Dec 15, 2008

I can't speak for the RZ or the ProSD - I have a ProS and have used it for everything from portraits to product to handhead with an angle grip at weddings (definitely a way to build uppr body strength).

They're very versatile, but rather large. Optics are great, only surpassed by Zeiss.

New and improved isn't always better. The only way this could be a bad camera is if the one telling you that had something else for sale.

Bosaiya · Dec 15, 2008

I shot my RB67 handheld for a good five hours Friday, only stopping to swap it out with my GX680. Sometimes I remembered that I had a neck strap on it, but mostly just cradled in my left hand. I did some lighting proofs with a light DSLR, which just felt strange. Sure, the RB is a lot heavier, but it still wasn't bad, and after the 680 felt light as a feather.I like a nice heavy camera, maybe due to my preferences in videography. The heavy build and solid feel really work for me. It's a very well balanced camera, even with long lenses.

panastasia · Dec 15, 2008

Bosaiya said:
I shot my RB67 handheld for a good five hours Friday, only stopping to swap it out with my GX680. Sometimes I remembered that I had a neck strap on it, but mostly just cradled in my left hand. I did some lighting proofs with a light DSLR, which just felt strange. Sure, the RB is a lot heavier, but it still wasn't bad, and after the 680 felt light as a feather.I like a nice heavy camera, maybe due to my preferences in videography. The heavy build and solid feel really work for me. It's a very well balanced camera, even with long lenses.

I too, like the feel and weight of the RB and have used it handheld for most of a day on a few occasions, including on a speedboat in rough water, with excellent results. I'm sure the weight of the thing is a positive factor for successful hand held shots. I noticed how well it's balanced with heavier lenses also (the most interesting ones are heavy).

I was wondering if anyone used a GX680 hand held, I remember hearing about a Japanese photographer who did. If I did I know that my back wouldn't last as long as my arms would. I would guess 30 minutes max for my back, but I'd be having more fun than lifting weights - for fitness.

Paul

Bosaiya · Dec 15, 2008

For me the GX680 is mostly just awkward (in addition to being heavy!). It was never designed for handheld (as far as I know) and it shows. The shutter release is up on the side, which makes it tough to reach. I generally use mine on a stand with the remote release, but when I work with people I prefer the freedom of handheld. The problem for me is that I usually reach for the bigger camera in the middle of a shoot, so it's got the full bellows sticking off the front and the angled finder on top. In order to both see through it and operate it I have to lean waaay back and then crane my neck at the same time.

But I like the results a lot and it makes people laugh. I think they might be willing to do more seeing what I'm willing to go through for them. Here's an example attached.

But back to the subject at hand, I really like the feel of the RB. When I shoot with light cameras (still and video) I have more trouble framing, everything jiggles around, my breathing makes the camera move, etc. Besides, you never know when you'll need to club a grizzly to death, and with an RB67 you'll still be able to bring home the photographic proof as well!

Rock Poper · Dec 15, 2008

bnstein said:
4. Size
Big, most of the size of a loaf of bread. It is actually an 8x8 camera.

It is actually a 6x8 camera:

Sqrt(8^2+8^2) = 11.31

Sqrt(6^2+8^2) = 10

paul ron · Dec 15, 2008

I'm impressed with how many of you are RB fans. I have always loved that camera since they were first introduced. I love repiring em as well, because of their heavy construction n plenty of allowneces for adjsutments to compensate for 100 years of wear. Mamiya built these monsters to last forever.

Built like Russian tanks.

Nice thread.

geoferrell · Dec 15, 2008

I think they're great tripod cameras, but the RB system makes for a heavy camera especially with a prism added. The images can be great and the camera bellows allows for closeup macro focusing. For all the features the RB offers, it could be a great all-around MF camera for an enthusiast.

nsouto · Dec 15, 2008

Hmmmm, I don't find my pro-s excessively heavy. It's very bulky and it is easier to manage if it's on a tripod, but that is mostly because of the size of the components rather than the weight.
I find it easier to swap lenses and backs if the camera is on a tripod, that's all.
The grip works really well for hand-holding.

With a 127KL, I doubt image and/or lens quality would ever be an issue with a rb67. The 180C and the 50C are also incredibly good lenses, in my experience.
And unlike many, I find the miror is actually very well dampened and mirror slap is not an issue at all.

The prism is indeed very heavy, though. I use mine mostly with the waist viewer because of that, but some types of shot require an eye level view and then nothing replaces the prism.

Steve Smith · Dec 16, 2008

nsouto said:
And unlike many, I find the miror is actually very well dampened and mirror slap is not an issue at all.

I agree with this. I think the mirror is controlled by a cam so it slows down towards the end of its travel rather than hitting an end stop as some do.

I have never understood those who want to use mirror up when hand held as any mirror induced vibration would be minimal compared to hand held induced movement and at shutter speeds suitable for hand holding I don't think mirror slap vibration is an issue anyway.

Steve.

dancqu · Dec 20, 2008

What Turned Me Off

No provision for bulb. Good down to one second.
After that a most awkward provision for time
exposures. It is bulky and heavy. I much
prefer the RZ. Less of the two just
mentioned. All electronic; long
exposures no problem. A
modern camera. Dan

pellicle · Dec 20, 2008

2F/2F said:
Funny that you have gone to 4x5 as an RB alternative, because I just picked up an RZ in order to move away from 4x5 for certain things. The universe sure has a way of achieving balance, doesn't it?

indeed. Back in 2000 I weighed seriously buying a 4x5 or a RB and bought the 4x5. I can use a roll back 6x9 (just bought a 6x12) or sheet. My Toho is lighter than the RB is and while the lenses may not be as sharp (not my personal argument, but it's been said) I like the versatility and the movements.

both are of course modular and bellows focusing ;-)

the Toho is not hand holdable ...

Elox · Dec 20, 2008

dancqu said:
No provision for bulb. Good down to one second.
After that a most awkward provision for time
exposures. It is bulky and heavy. I much
prefer the RZ. Less of the two just
mentioned. All electronic; long
exposures no problem. A
modern camera. Dan

Personally, I think the RB67 time exposure work fine, is very simple, and you don't have to worry about battery drain.

The RZ is about the same bulk and only about 10% lighter than the RB. Per Mamiya website: RB 4.1x5.7x9.2 in & 5.9 lb vs. RZ 4.25x5.2x8.4 & 5.5 lb, both with120 back and std lens. Lenses are not the same f l.

While the RB may not be the most modern design, it is a proven workhorse that has a minimum of things to malfunction in the field and doesn't rely on batteries.

Nick Zentena · Dec 20, 2008

Elox said:
The RZ is about the same bulk and only about 10% lighter than the RB. Per Mamiya website: RB 4.1x5.7x9.2 in & 5.9 lb vs. RZ 4.25x5.2x8.4 & 5.5 lb, both with120 back and std lens. Lenses are not the same f l.

I'm wondering what lens those who routinely handhold are using? Wide? Normal? Or long?

Travis Nunn · Dec 20, 2008

Nick Zentena said:
I'm wondering what lens those who routinely handhold are using? Wide? Normal? Or long?

Mostly wide and normal.

Steve Smith · Dec 20, 2008

Nick Zentena said:
I'm wondering what lens those who routinely handhold are using? Wide? Normal? Or long?

Yes. One of each. 50mm, 90mm and 180mm.

Steve.

Xmas · Dec 20, 2008

Mine was used by estate agent, for house shots, 4WD vehicle, so no problem with weight. Gbag with wheels, ok for street shooting. Mule or person Friday necessary for cross country senic shots.

My gbag has three lenses and it is heavy, dont carry it more then 300m from vehicle...

It is easy to hand hold, but it needs a tripod for 1/60 or less, to do the lenses justice, they are good, if you keep the film flat for large aperature shots. The film path wriggles and the film will acquire a set after an interval, and defeat the pressure plate.

They will be cheaper when 120 film is more difficult, buy a big freezer, stock it and wait...

Noel

davela · Dec 22, 2008

It's a fine system that will produce pro grade results in good hands

Steve Smith · Dec 22, 2008

davela said:
It's a fine system that will produce pro grade results in good hands

I look forward to that happening with mine!

Steve.

RB67 - Is it really THAT bad?

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