RB vs 503cw

markbarendt · May 9, 2010

Okay, I already have an RB that I love, no complaint whatsoever. The only thing I've even remotely thought about changing in this kit in the next year or two, is adding another lens or two so that I end up with a short, normal, and portrait set.

So now a local guy may be letting his 503cw kit go and it already has a short, normal, and portrait lens set, he is supposed to get me a price in the next few days.

Now I don't believe that any camera can make me a better photographer, but I've also never shot a Hasselblad so what do I know. :confused:

My question is this; are there any significant reasons to switch from an RB to a 503cw?

Q.G. · May 9, 2010

Only size, i'd say.

Christopher Walrath · May 9, 2010

Of the camera and of the purse strings, re: size, that is.

Pinholemaster · May 9, 2010

Size matters.

HA!

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2010

Mark,

Try it out and see how you like it.

Hasselblad has a larger variety and better availability of equipment although usually at a higher price.

Steve

epatsellis · May 9, 2010

Both, unfortunately. I use my RB frequently, though for compactness, weight and ease of travel, my Hassy gets used quite a bit.

tony lockerbie · May 9, 2010

The Hassy is a lot more compact and user friendly for field work, just depends on whether you can handle the down size. Also have to get your head around the square format, and this is something that you just have to try first.
The lenses for the Hasselblad are generally regarded as being superior, but the reduction in size will probably negate that.

Mick Fagan · May 9, 2010

My experience with both systems is in a studio where we had about 6 Hasselblad sets and about 8-10 RB/RZ sets, as well as the Rollie. This was 20 years ago.

The quality of each is equal.

The Mamiya lenses, have more contrast.

The bellows on the Mamiya, blows the Hasselblad away for close (ish) focus stuff.

The special close focus Hasselblad lens mounted on the bellows, is brilliant, so was the price!

Portability, (weight and size) meant the Hasselblad went out in the field more often.

Enlarging wise, the Mamiya negatives (or trannies) were better able to work to an 8x10 sheet of paper, however you usually printed about ¼ of a grade softer in B&W to match Hasselblad negatives. This was a factor in magazine reproduction, which was what we were doing.

Every photographer (around 20 of them) all wanted to use the Rollie, whether it was product shooting or model shooting.

The Rollie was the absolute best with models.

The Rollei was prone to breaking down, but when it was working, we worked it like you wouldnt believe. We only had one Rollie, too expensive for any more.

The Hasselblad units seemed to be prone to back problems, either sticking or the meshing of gears wasnt quite right.

The Mamiya cameras, whilst they had issues, those issues were usually after years of work on two shifts a day, 5 days a week.

For amateur work I dont think there would be anything in it, wear wise.

Mick.

markbarendt · May 9, 2010

Thanks all,

Unless the Hassy turns out way cheap, and maybe even then, I think I'll stick with the RB.

Slixtiesix · May 10, 2010

Hi Mick,
just for curiosity, which Rollei model was it?

Best regards, Benjamin

Steve Smith · May 10, 2010

I also have an RB (with 50, 90 and 180 lenses) and occasionally think about Hasselblad. I know I will not get any more from a Hasselblad as far as quality is concerned but having never handled one I wonder about the weight and size.

Perhaps someone who has both could post a picture of them side by side for comparison.

Steve.

Lars Daniel · May 10, 2010

I have RZ67 and Rollei 6008 (which in many aspects are comparable to RB versus Hassy). I love the focusing on the RZ and try hard not to hate the focusing of the Rollei. To be fair I have not yet shot more than a few rolls with the Rollei, and I will definitely give it some time.
As I see it there are three separate aspects of focusing, in which the RZ/RB beats the 6008/Hassy.
1. The actual turning of the Mamiya knob is way faster and easier to work with.
2. The Mamiya you can hold with both hands while focusing with thumb + index of one hand. On 6008/Hassy you can only hold with one hand while the other turns and turns.
3. The bigger ground glass of the Mamiya makes focusing with wlf a lot easier than on 6008/Hassy.

And then of course there is the wonderful close focusing of all the Mamiya lenses due to the bellows.

But as I said, I will give it time. I will for sure get the 45 deg prism for my 6008 because I feel I always have to use the loupe anyway.

fschifano · May 10, 2010

The Mamiya RB gear will be less expensive than the Hasselblad gear. No question about that. Yes, the 'blad is a lot smaller and lighter and is easier to tote around, if that's your pleasure. There will be arguments back and forth about the relative merits/demerits of the 'blad's Zeiss lenses vs. the Mamiya glass. Since there is so much of contention on the subject, the only reasonable conclusion I came make is that they're both much better than very good. It's really a non-issue for all practical purposes. What does matter is the negative size, and here the Mamiya RB is a clear winner if you like printing in the traditional rectangular formats. The 6x7 negatives fit 8x10, and 11x14 aspect ratios very closely, thus allowing you to use a much larger portion of the negative for your composition. With the 'blad's square format, you need to compose and print square to get the most from your negative, otherwise, you're throwing out a lot of image area when cropping it down to a rectangular format. Effectively, you're using a 6x6 piece of film, but using only about 6x4.5 to print from. You do, however, get another 2 frames on a roll of 120 with the 6x6 vs the 6x7 format.

My opinion is that you get more bang for the buck with the Mamiya system - and close focusing too. With the 'blad you get more snob appeal. Do I think there's any significant reason to switch from the Mamiya to the 'blad? No, not unless the smaller size and lighter weight of the equipment is not a big concern. The 'blads are nice, but not that nice; and I'm not just talking off the cuff here. I have a 503cx with the 50, 80, and 150 lenses. I have used the RB on a few occasions too, and I don't think the extra size is too bad.

CBG · May 10, 2010

I have had them both. I found I hated the interlocks, fussiness and film loading of the hassy. Winding the shutter cocking mechanism tells you how gorgeously the hassy is engineered. I could wind the shutter all day and just feel it and listen to it's mechanical music. The mirror lockup is simple and fast to use. Great glass for the most part. And the 6x6 is, well, very square.

The mamiya has great glass, same size filters for the most part, lots of bellows for close work, no jams, almost no repairs, built to keep on working with decades of durability, and doesn't care whether you add the lens or the extension tube first - bless it. Mirror lock is weird but workable. 6x7 is not so square and I find like that way better.

So, given all that, I ended up with the Pentax 67II. I just couldn't get over how much I like the hold-it-on-the-sides thing as opposed to supporting it from underneath. "Under" always feels awkward to me, and I have never got comfortable with that on a SLR. The same grip seems fine for me with a TLR. The P67's 35mm style body and grip has trumped all the strong points of the hassy and the mamiya.

So, why can't someone make a 6x9 SLR shaped like a P67? Gosh, I'd like that.

Athiril · May 10, 2010

I'd never trade my Mamiya RB for a Hassleblad.

Id need a hand grip or at least a strap for my RB, with the amount of hand holding I do with it... did some aerial photography with it yesterday morning, out of a chopper with the 2 left doors off.

Even changed film in the back in the open-aired chopper while up.

Jeff Kubach · May 10, 2010

The Hassleblad is a great system, just can't beat it. But I think I'll kept my RB67!

Jeff

TheFlyingCamera · May 10, 2010

I've had a Hassy outfit, loved it, then traded it in on some 5x12 field camera stuff when I realized I wasn't shooting much medium format anymore. Everything the folks here have said before about the pluses applied - lighter weight, amazing selection of accessories and lenses. Personally, I LIKED the square, and I also liked holding from the bottom - I found it made it easy to shoot handheld down to 1/15th of a second or so. Might have even pulled off the occasional 1/8th. I never found the back interlocks fussy, honestly.

I recently got an RB 67. The multi-step thing I have to do to advance the film on my RB I do find incredibly annoying so far. That's the biggest complaint I have, aside from the weight of the thing. I CAN hand-hold it, but there's no way I'd want to do that on a regular basis, unlike a Hasseblad, which I dragged all over Spain for two weeks (Madrid, Segovia, Toledo, Salamanca, back to Madrid). I think I had the Hassy on a tripod three times, all of them for night shots.

I also have a Rollei 2.8 E, which is a nice carry-around contrast to the RB. Size-wise it's in-between the Hassy and the RB. Although ergonomically it is quite similar to the Hassy (hold from the bottom), the focus knob being on the left side and the shutter button on the right makes it awkward to focus and trip the shutter with the supporting hand (left) as I was used to with the Hassy.

All of them have had their quirks - I've had film advance problems with both Hassy and RB backs, but in both instances, the backs that had problems were worn out but not advertised as such. The Rollei's meter is out of whack (pretty normal for a Rollei of that age) and probably not repairable. It also needs a CLA - the shutter gets gummy in cold weather. The biggest frustration I have with the Rollei is the close-focus or lack thereof. The normal lens on the hassy, which is optically identical, focuses much closer. The RB can do serious macro work with the 90 normal lens, focusing much closer than either of the other two.

Athiril · May 10, 2010

Hand-holding the RB is not a problem imho, its when you dont have a grip for it, and hold it from the bottom for extended periods of time, that your wrist will start to get sore from supporting all the weight.

I'd recommend investing in a wrist strength training device, such as those things you can twist back and forth, or a weight on a rope with a stick to roll it up.

c6h6o3 · May 10, 2010

TheFlyingCamera said:
I recently got an RB 67.

Scott and I went down to the National Arboretum last weekend for an afternoon. We both had large format cameras with us (in Scott's case his new 14x17) but never ended up getting them out. The Arboretum is gorgeous this time of year.

I used my Hasselblad and Scott used his new RB. I must say I was envious of his macro capability with that thing. The closest I could get was about 3 ft.

By the way, we also stopped by the Kenilworth Aquatic Gardens. There's no photography there for two months or so. The ponds are an absolute wasteland now.

msage · May 10, 2010

Curious, judging by the comments there are a lot of RB users here. I have used both Hasselblad and RBs, and vastly prefer the Hasselblads. IMHO the Hasselblad lenses are better (sharper and more contrast) and if I'm going to use an RB I may as well use a view camera. In fact, my view camera is lighter than my RB! Both systems are great cameras, it depends on your shooting style and wants.

k_jupiter · May 11, 2010

Ah, let's discuss something interesting that has never been discussed before, like Hassey v. RB67.

*L*

Maybe I would like a Hassey better if I ever used one. So I won't. I cannot out shoot my rb67 and it was so cheap, I enjoy using it whenever I have the chance.

For 500 bucks you can buy a complete three lens rb67 ProS system with a couple of extension tubes, a grip or two, and a couple of viewfinders. All better equipment than I have talent for. When you can get a 50x system for that kind of money let me know.

The other camera I lust for but will never buy is the 600x series. THAT is a nice camera. I have held one in my hands and knew if I had the money, I would be in trouble.

tim in san jose

Mick Fagan · May 11, 2010

Benjamin, I don't really remember which particular model Rollei it was, but I would assume it was the top of the line at the time.

The Rollei rep was trying to get us to buy ½ a dozen of them, but they were just too expensive to keep running with more than the odd electrical quirk appearing and a service call, or worse still, into a repair shop episode happening every now and then.

I remember distinctly that there were green bits on the right hand handle thingy. I also think there were bits of green elsewhere.

Mick.

Steve Smith · May 11, 2010

k_jupiter said:
Maybe I would like a Hassey better if I ever used one. So I won't. I cannot out shoot my rb67 and it was so cheap

I'm in the same position. The RB67 is much better than I am so I can't see the combination of me and a camera being any better if I changed the camera. The same weak link is still in the equation!

I'm still a bit curious though and would like to try one.

Steve.

Slixtiesix · May 11, 2010

Thanks Mick! I assume it was an SLX or another Rollei from the 6000-series according to your description...

Q.G. · May 11, 2010

Slixtiesix said:
Thanks Mick! I assume it was an SLX or another Rollei from the 6000-series according to your description...

The SLX did not have a right hand handle (nor any green bits on it). So it would be a 6001, 6006 or 6008, wouldn't it?

RB vs 503cw

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