Rangefinder with TTL metering?

[olwick]

I'm looking for a rangefinder, ideally 6x6 or 6x7, that has TTL metering. Does such a thing exist?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Pinholemaster]

The Mamiya 7 II has a very accurate meter, but it is not TTL. It's meter is similar to a 5 or 10° spot meter. It is very accurate when used properly. I've always been impressed with how my Mamiya 7II meters a scene.

 

[brian steinberger]

Mark, as far as I know there are no 6x6 or 6x7 or any MF rangefinders with TTL metering. I agree with above, the Mamiya 7II has pretty accurate metering, not so much with the Mamiya 6. But the most accurate metering MF rangefinder I've found is the Bronica RF645, but this is 6x4.5 of course.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

I thought the Bessa III 667 was through the lens metering.
-Rob Skeoch

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

They all have leaf shutters, which block light coming through the lens. That's why none of the 120 RF cameras have TTL meters.

 

[Diapositivo]

The Minolta CLE is a rangefinder, it has TTL metering (both ambient light and flash light), actually has automatic exposure, and it exists, but MF it is not.

The "real time" exposure system was a Minolta patent, later sold to Olympus and others, or so they say.

Fabrizio

 

[hpulley]

But the SLR MF cameras use TTL focusing and metering so why not rangefinders? The RB67 (and I think RZ67) keeps the leaf shutter open while you're composing the picture and with the AE finder it uses the light through the lens to meter. When you press the shutter button it closes the shutter, lifts the light baffle and mirror, opens the shutter for duration of exposure, closes shutter. This is slower and more complicated than cameras which simply leave the shutter closed until you need it but it is possible for SLRs so it should be possible for RF as well.

 

[olwick]

Thanks. It's not about accuracy. I've used the Mamiya 7 and it's a beautiful camera.

I do a lot of B&W infrared film work. What I'm looking for is something where I can leave my very dark R72 filter on the camera, have the camera meter through it, and still compose through the rangefinder.

I'm just lazy and don't want to do the exposure compensation with a non-TTL meter or hand-held meter.

 

[olwick]

I thought the Bessa III 667 was through the lens metering.
-Rob Skeoch

Nope, nor the Fuji equivalent. The metering cell is located next to the RF. I was really hoping it was as that would have been perfect.

 

[brian steinberger]

You can leave the R72 on the lens and simply dial in compensation. When you're past +2 simply change the ISO dial to add the extra compensation necessary.

 

[olwick]

You can leave the R72 on the lens and simply dial in compensation. When you're past +2 simply change the ISO dial to add the extra compensation necessary.

Yeah, that's what I do now and was trying to avoid.

FYI: I currently shoot between ISO 6 and 25, so that doesn't leave a lot of flexibility.

 

[brian steinberger]

Well not much other option other than handheld metering and applying the filter factor. I'd stick with rangefinders though for IR work. They're great cause you can leave the filter on the lens and not worry about looking through it when composing.

 

[originalphoto]

yes, when I put a filter on first time, I forgot to adjust exposure combination and got under exposure film.

 

[RobertV]

Nope, nor the Fuji equivalent. The metering cell is located next to the RF. I was really hoping it was as that would have been perfect.

Indeed, no TTL but very acurate.

 

[lxdude]

But the SLR MF cameras use TTL focusing and metering so why not rangefinders? The RB67 (and I think RZ67) keeps the leaf shutter open while you're composing the picture and with the AE finder it uses the light through the lens to meter. When you press the shutter button it closes the shutter, lifts the light baffle and mirror, opens the shutter for duration of exposure, closes shutter. This is slower and more complicated than cameras which simply leave the shutter closed until you need it but it is possible for SLRs so it should be possible for RF as well.

No problem if they have a focal plane shutter. With a leaf shutter some sort of light baffle would be needed, like leaf shutter SLR's have behind the mirror. Could be done, no doubt.

 

[elekm]

Right -- designing TTL metering for a camera with a leaf shutter adds unnecessary complexity and cost.

With an SLR -- even one with a leaf shutter -- you can add TTL metering, because the mirror often is part of a light-blocking baffle. When the shutter release is pressed, the shutter closes, the mirror raises, the lens stops down and the shutter is released -- all within a short period.

With a leaf shutter-equipped rangefinder, there is no baffle in front of the film, so you would have to add a blind. Then when you advance the film, it tensions and opens the shutter and brings the blind into place. The aperture can simply close down as needed. When you press the release, the shutter must close, the blind must move swiftly out of the way and the shutter can then release.

However, with medium format, you're talking about a big blind to cover up to 6x9. That makes the camera thicker and heavier and the moving that blind adds to vibration and noise. And of course you run the risk of burning holes in the blind when the film has been wound -- unless the blind is made of metal.

But if you're going to put in a metal blind, you might as well use a metal SLR-style shutter, although I can't recall them being made in this size.

In addition, it adds mechanical complexity (ask anyone who's worked on an SLR with a balky leaf shutter), which inevitably adds to production costs as well as more costly repairs.

At a certain point, why bother? Medium format film has enough latitude to handle small errors in exposure.

While it would be nice, there's nothing wrong with most onboard meters or even a handheld meter.

 

[olwick]

Thanks Mike. You're right, of course. The Mamiya 7 has a "blind" built in for when you change lenses, but having that become moveable in an instant with exposure is another level of complexity.

 

[bblhed]

Wouldn't it be really nice if the metering cell on a rangefinder was placed in such a way that you could hold your filter over it, or even nicer a built in compensator so that you could just stop down the meter.

Then again you could just get a piece of gel that reduces the light the same as your filter, cut it to fit the meter cell and then tape it in place that might not look pretty, but it should work, and unlike an adjustable meter, lets face it you are not going to forget to remove something that ugly when you remove the filter.

 

[Diapositivo]

Again, they are not MF, but most of those old cameras will meter "through the filter" as desired, if not "through the lens".

http://www.cameraquest.com/com35s.htm

You will notice that normally the lightmeter is placed so that it meters the light passing through a filter threaded over the lens.

One might wonder, though, about the reliability of CdS sensors if used with an IR filter. CdS have an unequal response through the light spectrum. Some experiments should be carried on to determine if an exposure compensation is needed.

Fabrizio

 

[rpsawin]

Have you looked at the new CV Bessa III specs? This just might fit the bill,

Bob

 

[Hikari]

Thanks. It's not about accuracy. I've used the Mamiya 7 and it's a beautiful camera.

I do a lot of B&W infrared film work. What I'm looking for is something where I can leave my very dark R72 filter on the camera, have the camera meter through it, and still compose through the rangefinder.

I'm just lazy and don't want to do the exposure compensation with a non-TTL meter or hand-held meter.

Well, even if you had TTL metering, you would need to also figure out if the meter had the same sensitivity at NIR. Why don't you just determine the film speed when filtered and then set your camera to that.

 

[elekm]

With infrared, there can be so many variables that it's tough to say what's the correct exposure in just about any situation. I've been using a handheld meter using a range of ASA 6 to 25.

I agree that a TTL meter is of limited use with infrared film.

 

[stevebrot]

Have you looked at the new CV Bessa III specs? This just might fit the bill,

Bob

The Bessa III does not have TTL. The sensor window is adjacent to the rangefinder window on the front of the camera.


Steve

 

[MattKing]

My Canonet meter reads through a mounted filter.

 

[RobertV]

The Bessa III does not have TTL. The sensor window is adjacent to the rangefinder window on the front of the camera.

All details:

http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/gfx/4FE9F68EAF6D6261C125775200320725/$file/Bedienungsanleitung_bessaIII.pdf