Rangefinder usability in 35mm folders?

Donald Qualls · Aug 27, 2020

One of my favorite cameras (when I find it again) is a Balda Jubilette, a pre-War 35mm folder that's about as small as a full frame 35mm camera can get (smaller than a Rollei 35 and competitive with a Minox 35). The 50mm f/2.9 triplet is pretty good as long as you don't shoot wide open; it'll fit in a jacket or coat pocket easily.

However, it's scale focus, which is slowish to use ("How far away is that, anyway? Okay, set that on the lens, exposure's already set, cock and... Oh, never mind.")

So, I'm interested in getting a 35mm folding rangefinder camera in the same size range -- a Super Baldinette, Weltini, or the like. On the Super Baldinette, however, the viewfinder and RF are separate and the windows are tiny -- and I wear thick glasses with lots of negative diopters. The Weltini, on the other hand, has a single window setup and the eyepiece looks a little bigger (at least in eBay photos).

Are there any user experiences with a Weltini, or suggestions for other very compact folding RF cameras in the same class (that aren't Retina; I'm not interested in one of those at present)? I'd even consider a half frame 127 folder (127 film isn't hard to cut down from 120), if it had a single window RF, but the Foth cameras are the only ones in that category that I know of and they're not all that common.

R.Gould · Aug 27, 2020

I have a few of them, Balda super baldesa, a few Ensign's and others, and providing the patch is fine then I have no problems using them, remember that most are 60+ years old and the patchs do fade, but get one in good condition then focusing is a doddle, for those folder's, and others that don't have a rangefinder I use a simple shoe mounted rangefinder, in my case a watameter, cost me under £10GBP, and again works a treat, I find Folding MF rangefinder's a lot easier to focus than 35mm folder's or even the 2 or 3 Barnack leicas that I use. and all the cameras are single window rangefinders, there were a lot made, and still a lot around, in fact, there were more single window than double window sold, at least over here, I take it you are looking for MF folders, if 35mm comes into it then look at Vogtlander and their Vitessa range, fine cameras and unusual with the barn doors,if fact too many to list here, but all easy to use and a lot of fun,

PFGS · Aug 27, 2020

If it doesn't have to be a folder, merely a small rangefinder, would the Olympus XA fit the bill?

Donald Qualls · Aug 28, 2020

Once I find it, I have an XA. I'm specifically looking for a 35mm folder along the lines of my Jubilette, but with a rangefinder. Strut folder is acceptable, but I prefer the protected lens of a bed folder. Among other things, a normal lens vs. the wide angle of the XA, also leather and nickeled or lacquered brass vs. plastic.

bdial · Aug 28, 2020

As you note, rangefinder folders aren't all that common in general. I have a couple of Retinas, although the finders are "squinty", I've not had a problem focusing. I wear glasses also. Most folders have similar tiny viewfinders.

I can think of two options that might be helpful, one, add an accessory viewfinder on a rangefinder camera, so that viewing and composing are easier, and just use camera's viewfinder to set focus. Similarly, you could add something like a Leica (or other) accessory rangefinder to your scale focus cameras. The cameras should still be pocketable with either option.

Donald Qualls · Aug 28, 2020

I successfully use a Kiev 4 on a daily basis, but I have trouble using the viewfinder in my Zeiss 532/16 Super Ikonta B with my glasses (I wore contacts when I got that camera). That gives some limits within which the transition between usable and less usable occurs. If I'm reading the scale of the photos correctly, a Weltini single-window viewfinder is similar in size to that of the Kiev 4 -- but it looks like I may have to buy one to find out for certain.

Add-on accessories have issues -- an add-on RF or viewfinder will always be two windows, and it will be prone to damage from handling (and in my experience, shoe mount rangefinders may also be prone to fall off the shoe, leading to damage to the RF unit).

R.Gould · Aug 28, 2020

If you can find them, a Zeiss Ikon Contessa folder, has one of the best rangefinder's around, and very easy to use, but 35mm rangefinder folders are plentyfull at least this side of the pond, Zeiss made several as did Voightlander, with their Vitessa's and the Vito folder's the last of which was a rangefinder model, and all very good strong well made cameras, Another Zeiss was the contina, built on the same base, but with an uncoupled rangefinder, at the moment many of my older cameras are put away due to re decorating, but for real quality cameras Zeiss, Vougtlander folders should be easy to find, and good cameras

Paul Howell · Aug 28, 2020

In the same league as Retina the Ansco The Zeiss Contessa or a Ansco Koromate, the Ansco was made in Germany came with a 50mm F2 Schneider Xenon.

Donald Qualls · Aug 28, 2020

Well, I guess I'll find out. I just got a reduced price offer on a Weltini I was watching on eBay and went ahead and pulled the trigger. Assuming it works ("untested"), I should be able to verify the RF is usable in a few days.

removedacct1 · Aug 28, 2020

Its a shame you aren't interested in the Retinas. The IIIC (big C) is the best of the folding Retinas ever made, with an ability change lenses (35, 50 and 80mm options) and its huge, bright viewfinder/rangefinder. In terms of usability, its the best Kodak AG made, and it is still pocketable, because of the folding front standard. Its my favorite of all the Retinas.

flavio81 · Aug 28, 2020

I have the Retina IIIc, it's one of my favorite cameras... of all time.

I also have a mint Zeiss Contessa, it sure has a precise rangefinder. But i don't take it outside because it's in way too good shape, i don't want to get it spoiled.

Donald Qualls · Aug 28, 2020

Really, what I'm after here is essentially a rangefinder version of my Jubilette. Black leather, visible bellow when open, external cocking shutter, knob wind is fine. Retinas are too complex -- I can fix a Jubilette, likely a Weltini, too.

Paul Howell · Aug 28, 2020

My first 35mm was Rentia III big C, got in 1966, still have it, but Donald is right, it's a fussy camera to use, need to get use the EV metering system, the steps to rewind and reload film, at my age need to carry pair of readers to see the settings, Good camera, takes time to get use to it's set up.

Pentode · Aug 28, 2020

The Zeiss Contessa isn't as small as your Jubilette but it's still pretty small. I have no problems with the VF/RF and I've worn glasses all my life. Contessas turn up at flea markets often - or they used to - and they're usually pretty cheap.

I can appreciate that Retina's are quirky to use. They certainly are. I'm not sure what you're worried about fixing, though. I have two IIa's and neither has ever needed repair. I like the RF just fine and they are smaller than the Contessa.

Good luck with the Weltini!

Donald Qualls · Aug 28, 2020

Pentode said:
Good luck with the Weltini!

Thanks! I'll report back when it gets here, and assuming it works, results from first film.

Donald Qualls · Aug 31, 2020

The Weltini came in today's mail; it's in pretty good overall condition. There's some dirt in the viewfinder eyepiece (which is pretty small, though the RF patch is bright enough at least for daylight use). but a couple minutes with a cotton swab should correct that. The RF moves, though i don't think it moves as much as it should. I've figured out the double exposure protection, counter reset, rewind release, door latch and body release. This is one you can't close with the shutter cocked, or the focus much off the infinity stop.

Aside from the RF linkage problem, the shutter (a Compur-Rapid) is jammed; I'll have to open it up to see if I can fix it -- that's a weekend day project, if I can find my tiny screwdrivers. Film advance, however, seems fine, counter works, and the inside is very clean; bellows looks very good and the leather covering is only a little scuffed (for a camera probably made before 1960, it doesn't look bad). If I can get the shutter running and restore the RF operation, I'll consider this to have been a decent deal at $55 plus tax and shipping.

The camera is a little bigger than my Jubilette, unavoidably (RF on top and its mechanics inside the bed). bit still quite compact; when closed it'll be roughly twice the volume of my Rollei 35.

I'll start a thread in Camera Building & Repair for the shutter and RF work.

Rangefinder usability in 35mm folders?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency