Rangefinder Buying Guide

JADoss23 · Mar 27, 2021

Looking to buy a new rangefinder. Currently deciding between a Contax G1, Minolta CLE, Leica CL, or a Leica or Canon model.
Budget is sub 1000 preferably with lens. I like that the Contax is automatic but also becomes a negative when needs any service. Looking for something portable and reliable that is easy to focus on the fly and will be worth the investment. Open to any suggestions and advice! Thanks!

BradS · Mar 27, 2021

A very nice Leica IIIF can be had for less than $400 but loading film requires trimming the leader (which is not easy to get right without a template).

you might also like to consider the Konica Hexar RF, Konica Hexar AF or any of the various Voigtlander Bessa models.

Nitroplait · Mar 28, 2021

Steer clear of the temptation to buy a Barnack Leica unless you want to explore the arcane flavours of a design originating in the 1920's when usability was non-existent. They are fun and charming objects, but not effective tools for photography.

Your list is fine, Brads suggestions relevant (except the IIIf - all good cameras, and your concerns for repairability valid, but also keep in mind that qualified professional repairs cost the same regardless of the value of the camera.
I recently bought a camera body that cost me €310 to purchase and an additional €624 to have CLA'd when all parts, VAT and shipping was sorted out. In this particular case it made sense to me, but for many people it makes only sense if the camera is worth considerable more than the cost of the repair.
For example, It makes no sense to argue a Nikon FM is a great camera because it is mechanical and can be repaired, if in the end you are unwilling to pay 2-3 times more than you paid for the camera to have it fixed. Most people won't.
It does however make sense to throw €600 towards a €2000 Leica M6.

My point is that; when you operate in the $1000 budget range for both camera and lens, just get a functional kit that you are attracted to and can enjoy for as long as it lasts - even if it can be repaired when it fails, you may not be willing to spend what is necessary to fix it anyway - so the criteria may be close to irrelevant.

Best of luck

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2021

A Barnack Leica is actually perfectly good for photography, if it works correctly. Some people have a problem with the focus/viewfinder. I don't find it significantly different from a M Leica, really - and it's smaller. It's just film advance, aperture, shutter speed, focus, frame, shutter button. Setting a hyperfocal distance and fixed aperture is just as easy with a Leica III as with an M6 - just at 1/8 the cost - you know, if you want to use it for street photography (rapidly becoming mostly photos of peoples' backs).

Nitroplait · Mar 28, 2021

Don Heisz said:
A Barnack Leica is actually perfectly good for photography, if it works correctly. Some people have a problem with the focus/viewfinder. I don't find it significantly different from a M Leica, really - and it's smaller. It's just film advance, aperture, shutter speed, focus, frame, shutter button. Setting a hyperfocal distance and fixed aperture is just as easy with a Leica III as with an M6 - just at 1/8 the cost - you know, if you want to use it for street photography (rapidly becoming mostly photos of peoples' backs).

I love those little things and own a IIIF I would never part with, but only because they feed my masochistic tendencies. Just let me make a little list of pain points:
Archaic loading process - Need to cut the film in the right length and curve - or you are running a very real risk jamming/damaging the shutter. Film loading from the button without any visual guides, loading a Leica M is for babies in comparison.

Separate rangefinder - You have to move your eyes between viewfinder and rangefinder to focus - you even need to focus the rangefinder with a lever under the rewind know! The rangefinder is typically dull if no recent CLA was performed.

Tunnel Viewfinder - a narrow tiny 50mm viewfinder without eye relief, parallax aids or frames. That is why many use an auxiliary finder even in place of the native 50mm. The viewfinder is typically hazy if no recent CLA has been performed.

Shutter dial - the dial rotates when the shutter is released, and you can't see the current selected shutter speed unless the film is wound. You can only change the shutter speed with the film wound, and you have to lift the dial to rotate it and make your selection - the shutter range is also archaic 1/25-1/50-1/75-1/100-1/200-1/500-1/1000.

Elmar Lens - Most come with the legendary and affordable Elmar 5cm f:3.5. While excellent if clean, you will have to change aperture from a ring around the front element which is a pain in itself an more so with a hood, and impossible with a filter mounted.

And there are other minor irritation points that will affect operation: Filmwinding by knob not lever, Film release/rewind lever does not automatically return after rewind, ASA/ISO reminder dial tops a 125, manual reset of the film counter, noisier than a Leica M because the shutter dial rotates rapidly when the shutter is released.

It is still as capable of making excellent photos as it was 80 years ago, just like a horse carriage can still get you from A to B and you can still write a novel on a typewriter.

Oh and they are inexpensive but cost as much as an M to have serviced if (likely) needed.

Cheers

awty · Mar 28, 2021

BradS said:
A very nice Leica IIIF can be had for less than $400 but loading film requires trimming the leader (which is not easy to get right without a template).

you might also like to consider the Konica Hexar RF, Konica Hexar AF or any of the various Voigtlander Bessa models.

Template! There's a template? I just use my finger nails and tear the film, takes me about 10 seconds longer to load than my M camera..

Don_ih · Mar 28, 2021

Nitroplait said:
I love those little things and own a IIIF I would never part with, but only because they feed my masochistic tendencies. Just let me make a little list of pain points:
Archaic loading process - Need to cut the film in the right length and curve - or you are running a very real risk jamming/damaging the shutter. Film loading from the button without any visual guides, loading a Leica M is for babies in comparison.

Separate rangefinder - You have to move your eyes between viewfinder and rangefinder to focus - you even need to focus the rangefinder with a lever under the rewind know! The rangefinder is typically dull if no recent CLA was performed.

Tunnel Viewfinder - a narrow tiny 50mm viewfinder without eye relief, parallax aids or frames. That is why many use an auxiliary finder even in place of the native 50mm. The viewfinder is typically hazy if no recent CLA has been performed.

Shutter dial - the dial rotates when the shutter is released, and you can't see the current selected shutter speed unless the film is wound. You can only change the shutter speed with the film wound, and you have to lift the dial to rotate it and make your selection - the shutter range is also archaic 1/25-1/50-1/75-1/100-1/200-1/500-1/1000.

Elmar Lens - Most come with the legendary and affordable Elmar 5cm f:3.5. While excellent if clean, you will have to change aperture from a ring around the front element which is a pain in itself an more so with a hood, and impossible with a filter mounted.

And there are other minor irritation points that will affect operation: Filmwinding by knob not lever, Film release/rewind lever does not automatically return after rewind, ASA/ISO reminder dial tops a 125, manual reset of the film counter, noisier than a Leica M because the shutter dial rotates rapidly when the shutter is released.

It is still as capable of making excellent photos as it was 80 years ago, just like a horse carriage can still get you from A to B and you can still write a novel on a typewriter.

Oh and they are inexpensive but cost as much as an M to have serviced if (likely) needed.

Cheers

I can agree those can be irritating but are also pretty easy to get used to.

Paul Howell · Mar 28, 2021

Canon P or 7S, I had a Leica IIIG and 7S, the Leica had better build, but the Canon is much easier to load, has built in frames lines, and if the meter is working was accurate. For a $1000 you should be able to find a body, 50, 28, and 100mm Canon glass.

Jim Jones · Mar 28, 2021

To load a Barnack Leica without reshaping the leader, first stick something like a business card into the film loading slot. Slide the film into the slot behind the card. withdrao the card, and you're ready to use one of the neatest compact cameras ever. Even the IIIg Leica was getting a little bloated. My Canon P and Canon 7S were not as durable as the Leicas.

Kodachromeguy · Mar 28, 2021

Nitroplait said:
Elmar Lens - Most come with the legendary and affordable Elmar 5cm f:3.5.

Affordable? Where? Please direct me to the site where such Elmar can be purchased.

Arthurwg · Mar 28, 2021

Nitroplait said:
I love those little things and own a IIIF I would never part with, but only because they feed my masochistic tendencies. Just let me make a little list of pain points:
Archaic loading process - Need to cut the film in the right length and curve - or you are running a very real risk jamming/damaging the shutter. Film loading from the button without any visual guides, loading a Leica M is for babies in comparison.

Separate rangefinder - You have to move your eyes between viewfinder and rangefinder to focus - you even need to focus the rangefinder with a lever under the rewind know! The rangefinder is typically dull if no recent CLA was performed.

Tunnel Viewfinder - a narrow tiny 50mm viewfinder without eye relief, parallax aids or frames. That is why many use an auxiliary finder even in place of the native 50mm. The viewfinder is typically hazy if no recent CLA has been performed.

Shutter dial - the dial rotates when the shutter is released, and you can't see the current selected shutter speed unless the film is wound. You can only change the shutter speed with the film wound, and you have to lift the dial to rotate it and make your selection - the shutter range is also archaic 1/25-1/50-1/75-1/100-1/200-1/500-1/1000.

Elmar Lens - Most come with the legendary and affordable Elmar 5cm f:3.5. While excellent if clean, you will have to change aperture from a ring around the front element which is a pain in itself an more so with a hood, and impossible with a filter mounted.

And there are other minor irritation points that will affect operation: Filmwinding by knob not lever, Film release/rewind lever does not automatically return after rewind, ASA/ISO reminder dial tops a 125, manual reset of the film counter, noisier than a Leica M because the shutter dial rotates rapidly when the shutter is released.

It is still as capable of making excellent photos as it was 80 years ago, just like a horse carriage can still get you from A to B and you can still write a novel on a typewriter.

Oh and they are inexpensive but cost as much as an M to have serviced if (likely) needed.

Cheers

As someone who recently purchased a Leica IIIF, I can make these observations: Yes, the viewfinder is somewhat awkward. Best to purchase a Brightline finder, which woks perfectly. It is very easy and quick to cut the film leader for loading. Yes, you have to get used to the camera's idiosyncrasies like the shutter speed dial, the film winder and the somewhat difficult rangefinder, but that's part of the camera's charm. I use a 50mm F2 Summar lens, which I purchased years ago to use with my M6 because of its "character." The lens takes A36 clamp-on filters that work with or without the dedicated hood. The best part for me is the sound of the shutter, which seems to go "snick." Most folks would not want the IIIF as their primary camera, but it is fun and an enjoyable challenge to use. Ken Rockwell has a great review of the IIIF on his website.

Arthurwg · Mar 28, 2021

Kodachromeguy said:
Affordable? Where? Please direct me to the site where such Elmar can be purchased.

I just purchased one for $150.00. Service, if necessary, will run you $80.00.

narsuitus · Mar 28, 2021

JADoss23 said:
Budget is sub 1000 preferably with lens.

Consider a fixed-lens rangefinder like the Canon QL17 Giii (left) with fixed 40mm f/1.7 lens or the Minolta Hi-Matic 9 (right) with fixed 45mm f/1.7 lens.

Rangefinders by Narsuitus, on Flickr

awty · Mar 28, 2021

Jim Jones said:
To load a Barnack Leica without reshaping the leader, first stick something like a business card into the film loading slot. Slide the film into the slot behind the card. withdrao the card, and you're ready to use one of the neatest compact cameras ever. Even the IIIg Leica was getting a little bloated. My Canon P and Canon 7S were not as durable as the Leicas.

Thanks for the reminder, must put a business card in my camera bag.
They are so compact you can carry one or two around in your pants pocket or four in your medium sized camera bag.

My F series are as quiet and quick and easy to use as my mb-2. My 3b is 83 years old has heavy brassing and still works a charm.
I usually zone focus, but don't have a problem with the twin window focus even with glasses. Other cameras I do.
If you want something that will last forever get a Leica Barnack.

beemermark · Mar 28, 2021

I have a couple of the 35mm film cutting templates around somewhere. Can never find them when I need them. I just cut 2~3" of the leader horizontally, then cut it off vertically. just a rough square cut. Been doing it for at least 40+ years that way. When no scissors are handy I just put the shutter on bulb, remove the lens and feed the film through that way. VF are "squinty" by today's standards but hardly impossible to use. Lots of top end fixed end rangefinders out there from all the major players.

voceumana · Mar 28, 2021

Maybe you'd like to try a cheap Argus C3? It is limited, of course, and you have to remember to cock the shutter and wind the film (separate operations). Not fancy, but an easy, low cost introduction to rangefinders.The lens is 3-element f/3.5, and highest shutter is 1/200, but it can take quite good pictures on a limited budget. It will tell you a lot about whether or not you like rangefinders.

I have a pair of Bessa R2 cameras which are quite decent.

GRHazelton · Mar 28, 2021

If you don't need interchangeable lenses or coupled meter, AND if you can find one the Konica IIIa is a wonderful camera. It sports an excellent f1.8 lens, a very convenient front mounted two stroke film advance roughly concentric with the lens, and a truly excellent 1 to 1 projected frame, parallax corrected viewfinder, which also corrects for the changing coverage of the lens as it is focused! Wow!
Dante Stella gives us this rhapsodic review of the Konica IIIa https://www.dantestella.com/technical/koni3.html
Oh, yes. The Konica IIIa is a heavy, solid chunk of metal and glass. Given a strong neck strap it would make a fine defensive weapon.....

millardmt · Mar 29, 2021

JADoss23 said:
Looking to buy a new rangefinder. Currently deciding between a Contax G1, Minolta CLE, Leica CL, or a Leica or Canon model.
Budget is sub 1000 preferably with lens. I like that the Contax is automatic but also becomes a negative when needs any service. Looking for something portable and reliable that is easy to focus on the fly and will be worth the investment. Open to any suggestions and advice! Thanks!

I just did a 30-second search on eBay and found the coolest/weirdest camera I've seen in a while. Just for you! In fact, I was going to post a link here as a sort of gag -- until I happened to notice that the seller ("shueido") has one of my leicas in his Taiwanese shop for a re-paint as I write this! (He's a very talented fellow, I've found to my great satisfaction.)

But this camera -- https://www.ebay.com/itm/CANON-P-RF...221041?hash=item2173f2ed31:g:QSgAAOSwIzBfMSxr -- is a bit of an acquired taste, wouldn't you say?!

Marc

Don_ih · Mar 29, 2021

To cut the film to load a Leica, hold the film canister upside-down in your left hand between your thumb and forefinger (you should be looking at the back of the film) and pull film out until it reaches your wrist. Cut down the middle and then curve away from your thumb to finish.

Someone could dislodge one of the pressure plate springs by trying to stick a card into the camera. Or the corner of the card could buckle and mess up the shutter curtain. Scissors will fit in most camera bags.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 29, 2021

If you spend little more you could get M2 with Jupiter-12. This is best, long lasting, still serviced camera you could get as RF.

Bessa R series are nowhere near to Ms ergonomically. They are based on cheap SLR Cosina chassis. And they won't meter with J-12. You will need CV CS 35 2.5 or old Canon lens. Those are three hundreds USD lenses.
If you are OK with 50mm lens, Bessa R with Jupiter-8 is cool. I used it for year or so. Rs are not as terribly priced as after it R_M, R_A. Just get half case for it from day one.

Anything older than Bessa Rs with electronics is often waste on money. All of those CLs, Canonents. Hexar, Contax are not really serviceable.

Canon P is awesome, not overpriced RF. With slightly odd VF, it is bigger than Leica Ms and you have to check RF, VF before buying.

Serviced III series Leica LTM cameras are marvelous. RF is magnified. But some people can't use it. Something with eyes, vision. And you will need external VF for anything which is not 50mm.
External VF for 28/35 could be made from crapped out XA, Minox 35. Where are some old VF as well, some are not as terribly priced as Leica, Voigtlander. Here is big universal VF made in USSR, copy of Zeiss VF.
Where are Nicca, Leotax and Canon LTM RFs. But with your budget Leica is better. Because it is better made. I have all of those cameras.

dourbalistar · Mar 29, 2021

JADoss23 said:
Looking to buy a new rangefinder. Currently deciding between a Contax G1, Minolta CLE, Leica CL, or a Leica or Canon model.
Budget is sub 1000 preferably with lens. I like that the Contax is automatic but also becomes a negative when needs any service. Looking for something portable and reliable that is easy to focus on the fly and will be worth the investment. Open to any suggestions and advice! Thanks!

@JADoss23, buy Dan Daniel's Canon P and Jupiter-8, listed here in the Classifieds:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/canon-p-with-jupiter-8-50mm-f-2-225.182988/

Cholentpot · Mar 29, 2021

I'm going to throw in for the Retina series. I got hold of one and love it.

JADoss23 · Mar 30, 2021

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I think right now I'm leaning towards a Contax G1 again for it's ease of use. I have medium format cameras an SLR for when I shoot concerts and such so my pain reason of wanting a rangefinder is something that is quick and easy to focus and close to a point and shoot just higher quality lenses and more control. I think the one thing that definitely holds me back some is that it is mostly not serviceable being electronic. As far as ease of use and portability go for being compact any better alternatives? thanks!

cliveh · Mar 30, 2021

For your budget a Leica IIIf with a 50mm f2 Summicron would be top of my list.

Craig75 · Mar 30, 2021

you dont get much control with a contax g1. I thought it was a dog of a camera when I had one and I'm not surprised they immediately updated it.

Rangefinder Buying Guide

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