Rangefinder Alignment Question

RattyMouse · Jan 1, 2014

Today while out shooting with my new Fujifilm GF670W, I noticed that there may be an alignment issue with my rangefinder. First off, I have shot 5 rolls of film through it so far and no frames have been out of focus.

Today, I was standing at a street corner, wanting to shoot the traffic that was driving by. I pointed my camera down at the street, focusing on a part of the road that was some contrast to it. I found that I could focus both images in a left/right manner, but when they were lined up, one image was slightly higher than the other. In other words, the images were lined up in one direction only. In the up/down direction, they were not lined up. I have never noticed this before. It seems more prevalent in closer focusing. Since I am getting accurate focus, I'm not sure what this means.

Has anyone had an issue like this before? Should it be corrected?

Finally, does anyone know if I can adjust the rangefinder on a GF670W by myself?

Thanks!

Too old to care · Jan 1, 2014

Another thread on the same subject. May be helpful. http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104445 Also, if it is the same range finder as the Epson, maybe this will help too. http://cameraquest.com/Epson-R-D1/_r-d1/r-d1_16.htm And, this may be the best one. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

summicron1 · Jan 1, 2014

vertical alignment is bothersome, but the camera will still focus accurately, you just have to use vertical lines if the difference is large. If it bothers you, have it fixed. If it is minor, or something you only notice when you move your eye around, live with it.

I've found that with all rangefinders a bit of vertical alignment is inevitable after a while, dunno why. You can have it adjusted, certainly, and you should have it done by someone who knows what they're doing. The regular 5-year service is a good time to do this.

Tom1956 · Jan 1, 2014

Whatever the camera is, that is the easiest problem to correct.

thegman · Jan 1, 2014

The vertical alignment is a bit off, this is harmless, but is a pain if you're a perfectionist type. A couple of years ago this would have bothered me, now it would not.

RattyMouse · Jan 1, 2014

Thanks everyone. After paying $2200 for this camera, I want everything to be perfect. However, since it is a harmless "defect" I guess I should learn to live with it, especially since I get no warranty for this new camera. Fujifilm will only service it in Japan and I'm not going to ship it back there for this.

I wonder, why is there even a vertical adjustment at all since it does nothing for focusing? Why isnt this parameter just locked? Why is there an adjustment available?

Newt_on_Swings · Jan 1, 2014

Maybe you can look for info on adjustment using the older bessa folders as a reference. I honestly am not sure if the internal builds would even be similar though. The problem with these alignment issues is that once something starts moving, it may continue to move until it hits a stop. The screw needs a dab of loctite to secure it.

RattyMouse · Jan 2, 2014

I'm wondering if pointing my camera so deeply down, shooting an object from above, somehow magnified the discrepancy in the vertical alignment. I never noticed this much when shooting straight on.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 2, 2014

RattyMouse said:
I'm wondering if pointing my camera so deeply down, shooting an object from above, somehow magnified the discrepancy in the vertical alignment. I never noticed this much when shooting straight on.

If you want to check the alignment both V and H, use a distant streetlight, the moon, or some other pointy light source with a dark background. I'm not familiar with your camera, but resetting the vertical alignment usually neccesitates resetting the horizontal alignment too. In a new camera costing $2200, I would not tolerate any such issues at all.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 2, 2014

thegman said:
The vertical alignment is a bit off, this is harmless, but is a pain if you're a perfectionist type. A couple of years ago this would have bothered me, now it would not.

It isn't harmless.
When you are using a vertical line as a focussing point, there isn't much of a problem. But if you have only the texture of an object to focus on, it's a very real problem. It makes it difficult to use the camera in vertical orientation as well.

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jan 2, 2014

In a new camera costing $2200, I would not tolerate any such issues at all.

And even when you knowing when you buy a 20 dollar russian rangefinder , there is no problem like this , a japanese tourist trap , I pay 20 dollar for your camera and it is even insult to 20 dollar Zeiss Ikon.

Chris Lange · Jan 2, 2014

Mustafa Umut Sarac said:
And even when you knowing when you buy a 20 dollar russian rangefinder , there is no problem like this , a japanese tourist trap , I pay 20 dollar for your camera and it is even insult to 20 dollar Zeiss Ikon.

You are extraordinarily talented at brutal sarcasm, Mustafa.

As to the RF issue, some vert alignment can occur even in brand new cameras out of the box, for whatever reason. I've seen it in new Leicas before, as well. As for why the adjustment isn't locked from the get go, I believe it's because of the parallax compensation...

RattyMouse · Jan 2, 2014

E. von Hoegh said:
If you want to check the alignment both V and H, use a distant streetlight, the moon, or some other pointy light source with a dark background. I'm not familiar with your camera, but resetting the vertical alignment usually neccesitates resetting the horizontal alignment too. In a new camera costing $2200, I would not tolerate any such issues at all.

In normal circumstances, I'd send it back too. But I bought this camera knowing full well that I have no warranty. Fujifilm states clearly, as did the person in the store: No warranty service outside of Japan.

I bought this camera for $600 cheaper than I could in China. That's the price of a slightly misaligned viewfinder.

I'll try your test next time I am out with the camera.

Ken Nadvornick · Jan 2, 2014

Because I am able to compartmentalize issues...

Try reading the first four posts in the following thread. Reference is made to an adjustment screw that sits higher than the others. If I recall correctly, that is the vertical alignment screw. Note that it's very easy to adjust either the vertical or horizontal alignment while throwing off the opposite alignment. A fair amount of delicate trial-and-error is required to get them both right at the same time.

I adjusted my standard GF670 to be correct in both axes at the beginning of last summer. With light normal use it is now slightly off vertically, but still dead-on horizontally (where it counts).

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ken

E. von Hoegh · Jan 2, 2014

RattyMouse said:
In normal circumstances, I'd send it back too. But I bought this camera knowing full well that I have no warranty. Fujifilm states clearly, as did the person in the store: No warranty service outside of Japan.

I bought this camera for $600 cheaper than I could in China. That's the price of a slightly misaligned viewfinder.

I'll try your test next time I am out with the camera.

Well, at least it sounds like the adjustment is easily accessible. It helps to have the camera on a tripod when you check the RF. Good luck.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 2, 2014

Chris Lange said:
You are extraordinarily talented at brutal sarcasm, Mustafa.

As to the RF issue, some vert alignment can occur even in brand new cameras out of the box, for whatever reason. I've seen it in new Leicas before, as well. As for why the adjustment isn't locked from the get go, I believe it's because of the parallax compensation...

Although they both get their "movement message" from the Rf cam, the parallax compensation and Rf vertical alignment are not related. In fact quite a lot of RF cameras without parallax compensation are afflicted with vertical misalignment in the Rf; even cameras like screwmount Leicas where the Vf and Rf are entirely separate (no parallax comp either) go out of adjustment.

RattyMouse · Jan 2, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
Because I am able to compartmentalize issues...

Try reading the first four posts in the following thread. Reference is made to an adjustment screw that sits higher than the others. If I recall correctly, that is the vertical alignment screw. Note that it's very easy to adjust either the vertical or horizontal alignment while throwing off the opposite alignment. A fair amount of delicate trial-and-error is required to get them both right at the same time.

I adjusted my standard GF670 to be correct in both axes at the beginning of last summer. With light normal use it is now slightly off vertically, but still dead-on horizontally (where it counts).

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ken

I guess that I'll deal with this issue when I have actual focus problems. Right my focusing is bang on accurate so any "repair" work that I do is more than likely going to mess with a good thing. But in future, when I need to do this, I'll use your directions as a reference.

If you ever end up doing this again, you should document it with pictures and post it for all the owners of this camera. I'm sure you will get much praise for that.

Xmas · Jan 3, 2014

rangefinder Leicas and their clones e.g. Canon's have three interacting adjustments.

Typically you need to reset vertical then adjust both horizontal!

The arm pivot and the follower pivot horizontal adjustments are independent but interact with the other. The factory people set them up at 1, 10 metre and infinity, the intermediate errors are very small then.

elekm · Jan 4, 2014

For all that it's done to make rangefinders popular again, Cosina hasn't put enough effort into creating a rangefinder that stays in alignment or is properly aligned out of the box. Other camera makers were able to do this, but this has been an obvious weakness among Cosina made cameras. What a shame.

fotch · Jan 5, 2014

elekm said:
For all that it's done to make rangefinders popular again, Cosina hasn't put enough effort into creating a rangefinder that stays in alignment or is properly aligned out of the box. Other camera makers were able to do this, but this has been an obvious weakness among Cosina made cameras. What a shame.

What brands do they make?

Peltigera · Jan 5, 2014

Cosina make the Bessa rangefinder and used to make the modern Zeiss Ikon rangefinder. They have also made rangefinder cameras under the Rollei and Epson names.

Xmas · Jan 5, 2014

elekm said:
For all that it's done to make rangefinders popular again, Cosina hasn't put enough effort into creating a rangefinder that stays in alignment or is properly aligned out of the box. Other camera makers were able to do this, but this has been an obvious weakness among Cosina made cameras. What a shame.

rfdr have never been unpopular
Leica million
FSU several millions
Canon several millions
Olympus made oodles small rfdr
etc
Cosina only much smaller numbers
very rare to see one in use...
DSLR enormous numbers compared with rfdr yes

Cosina equipment is comparable in every way with other Ja manufacturers indeed as a 2nd tier supplier they may have made your Nikon or Olympus camera.

And for example Leicas have had significant problems with tolerances and won't take kindly to shock.

The last time I dropped a gbag the meter survived a Weston but the Leica rfdr way off.

semi-ambivalent · Jan 5, 2014

Xmas said:
...The last time I dropped a gbag the meter survived a Weston but the Leica rfdr way off.

The Weston is about as delicate as a '53 Dodge Powerwagon. I'd blame the bag for that...

s-a

Xmas · Jan 5, 2014

semi-ambivalent said:
The Weston is about as delicate as a '53 Dodge Powerwagon. I'd blame the bag for that...

s-a

I blame me, the bag was a Billingham. The Weston was a V.

Rangefinder Alignment Question

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