Range Finders - is there something wrong with me?

Doc W · Mar 18, 2016

I shoot mainly LF but also quite a bit of MF. My main MF camera for some time was an RB67. I lusted after a Mamiya 7 for a long time but it was always out of my price range. Recently I got an insane deal on one with four lenses. But I just can't warm to it. Is it because my eyes are old and I love that big screen in the RB? I really want to like it because when I travel with my wife, I shoot only MF and the Mamiya is nice and light. But dang, it just doesn't feel inviting. Is there a program I can take at some self-help institute which will ease me into a love of rangefinders?

This is not a diss on the Mamiya 7 btw. More of a cry for help.

frank · Mar 18, 2016

Not every camera (type) suits everyone. Simple. There is no right or wrong.

jerrybro · Mar 18, 2016

I sold off a Leica M4 system for the same reason. As Yamaha used to say, different stroke for different folks.

KidA · Mar 18, 2016

I'd say, if you can, just keep at it for a while. (I don't know how long you've been trying!) I've had this happen to me before, but then I got used to it and was very pleased. Almost always when there's a big change in operation, it seems a bit scary.

I rarely use rangefinders, and before purchasing an Olympus 35SP, I had barely held a rangefinder. At first, I couldn't deal with the viewfinder (my main system is OM, amazing viewfinders!). However, I kept trying at it, and the pictures that came out of that thing were amazing! Not just cuz the lens, which happens to be incredible, but because I was forced to make my image before even bringing the camera to my face. Now, even though I can admit looking into this viewfinder is still nowhere near as much of a joy as my OM or Hassy, I love using the camera.

This is not to say that ANY camera will suit ANYbody. Perhaps it's really not for you, but giving up right away is somewhat unfair. I'm no stranger to trying cameras that don't suit me...

CropDusterMan · Mar 18, 2016

Use it more and you'll become familiar with it. Don't think of the differences, think of how it'll
help with the end result. It's a great tool. Practice begets comfort with a system, and through extension,
quality work (that is, if the 6 inches behind the viewfinder are working)... ;O) ...and with it's
optics, there are few cameras that are so lightweight and relatively compact that could serve
you as well as the Mamiya 7. Next to a Leica or Fuji 6x9, I think it's probably the best system to
travel with.

HiHoSilver · Mar 18, 2016

FWIW, the images from that Mami 7 glass are just nasty good - take a look at Tony Egan's recent shot in the gallery. I also find an slr much more natural - but its what I started with. If I had no other concerns than ergonomics, I'd give it quite a few rolls before throwing in the towel.

Maris · Mar 18, 2016

I share Doc W's unease with viewfinder cameras. The central entity in photography, the thing that hits the film, is the real optical image delivered by the lens. I want a camera that lets me inspect this image, its form and content, before exposure. So its always a single lens reflex or a view camera as a primary choice.

FujiLove · Mar 18, 2016

Rangefinder composition is definitely odd if you're used to looking at the ground glass of an SLR or TLR. I find the frame outlines distracting and it's difficult to block out the things I see outside of the image area.

The M7ii has been my ultimate dream camera for quite a while, and through a combination of selling other equipment and finding a great deal I've just managed to acquire one. I've literally only shot one roll on it, but I already love the ergonomics, size and weight. However, it's clearly far from perfect. I've just gotten into slide film and I'm now wondering how I'm going to get on with grad filters. I have a 6x6 projector so I know I'll have to compose for the final image to be cut square for the slide mount (I love the square format, so that's okay). A Mamiya 6 and Hasselblad 500CM is floating around in my mind, but I know: a) I would worry about the bellows and winding mechanism on the 6, and still struggle with grad filters, and b) I can't stand the ergonomics of the Hasselblad V cameras.

Every medium format camera seems to be a compromise one way or another. Each has a particular set of strengths and weaknesses. I know that the M7ii is probably as close as I'm going to get to something that's right for me, so I'll work hard to overcome it's weaknesses. However, if after a year or so and many rolls it's simply not working for me and I'm not enjoying the experience, it will be getting sold. Dream camera or not.

If you don't enjoy using the Mamiya, pass it along to someone else that will, and don't beat yourself up about it. Life's way too short to struggle with equipment that isn't fun to use, even if other people think it's the bee's knees.

John Koehrer · Mar 18, 2016

IMO it's too large. I've used rf's for years but the Mamiya 7 is just too cumbersome. I'd rather use the RB67.

Ai Print · Mar 18, 2016

I love using RF cameras in my Leica system but could not warm to it at all in using the Mamiya 6. I used it a fair bit on and off for a good year before I sold it off for a Rolleiflex 2.8D as my lightweight, one lens option to my Hasselblad system.

FujiLove · Mar 18, 2016

John Koehrer said:
IMO it's too large. I've used rf's for years but the Mamiya 7 is just too cumbersome. I'd rather use the RB67.

The M7 is too large and cumbersome...so you would rather use a RB67. Is that a joke?!

Sirius Glass · Mar 18, 2016

RF range finders are hard to see. You have been spoiled by LF and MF. Stay with the good stuff.

FujiLove · Mar 18, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
RF range finders are hard to see. You have been spoiled by LF and MF. Stay with the good stuff.

I played around with focusing my M7ii last night in very dim light (unlit hallway with dim light coming from a bedroom doorway eight feet away) and I could focus accurately. The M7's rangefinder is better than that on my old Leica M3, but I reckon I could have managed that too (guessing as it's been sold).

With my Rolleicord Vb: no chance.

Pentax 6x7 with f2.8 lens and prism finder: very hard to see when the screen snapped into focus.

The RF won by a mile.

tim48v · Mar 18, 2016

Obviously, it will never work for you and it is undoubtedly sabotaging your artistic expression. The only cure is to give it to me. Knowing that it is in the hands of someone who appreciates it, will allow your creative energy to flow with such power that you could become the next Ansel Adams.

Seriously, I had the same experience with a Mamiya 645; wanted to love it but just couldn't. Sold it.

Pioneer · Mar 18, 2016

As a rule I find that I prefer SLR cameras when working with MF. Not sure why. Of course there are a few exceptions. I enjoy working with folder cameras and those with working rangefinders are technically rangefinder cameras. I also love the Fuji GA645 though perhaps it is not really a rangefinder. My favorites for the past couple of years has been the Pentacon Six TL and the Rolleiflex 3.5 Automat. Neither are rangefinders.

summicron1 · Mar 18, 2016

Rangefinder cameras do require you to visualize, in your head, what the image will look like -- depth of field is especially difficult in this regard. With an SLR you have it right there, easy to see.

So it takes a mental shift. Shoot a few rolls, get the feel of it, you may grow to like it, especially if some of the images start to look as you visualized them.

Or you may not. In which case, from the sound of it, you can sell the package at a profit!

destroya · Mar 18, 2016

I think a lot of it depends on what kind of camera you first used on a regular basis. I have a friend who learned on a range finder and finds a SLR clumsy and not to his liking. I grew up using an SLR and find using my mamiya 6 clumsy and awkward. both achieve all the results they are supposed to but some times its hard to bring something new into the mix. I have had my mamiya 6 for a few years and still have issues using it. But its not the camera or the system, its the operator. when i get it right, I cant match the results with any other camera I own. but those results are far and few between. Im am thinking hard about selling it. time will tell. It was nice though using it today on a hike up to eagle lake above emerald bay i tahoe. perfect camera for the hike and project. hope the results come out.

give it some more time and then look back and see if it works for you or not. only you can answer that question.

mooseontheloose · Mar 18, 2016

I'm going through something similar with the Mamiya 6 I bought last year. I've only really ever shot SLRs and TLRs, so the rangefinder experience has been new for me. In all honesty, using a rangefinder wasn't problematic for me. The things I still can't get used to is the lack of close(r) focusing (not for portraits, which everyone seems to make a big deal about, but for anything) and not being able to see the effect of the filter (usually yellow, or a polariser) that I have on the lens (grads are out of the question). That said, compared to my Bronica SQAi system I used to carry around, it's incredibly light, and the fact that I suffer from a chronic herniated disc in my back means I really do have to consider the weight of the camera gear I carry with me. It's a fantastic camera, and even though I told myself to give it at least a year, I'm still debating whether I want to sell it or not.

CropDusterMan · Mar 19, 2016

FujiLove said:
The M7 is too large and cumbersome...so you would rather use a RB67. Is that a joke?!

LOL. That has to be a joke! I think the RB weighs about 9 times what the 7 does. Back in the 90's I covered
racing cycling in Europe, most of it from the back of a motorcycle, and one of my weapons of choice was the
RZ with a 110mm, hand-grip, nikon flash and prism finder with a 220 back. A TOTAL BEAST!

A lot of the other photojournalists use to kid with me while we were in the cafe's prior to the race...then one day over coffee, I'd pulled out some 6x7 chromes from the previous days race...the kidding stopped from then on. tee hee. The Mamiya 7 would have rocked.

John Koehrer · Mar 19, 2016

"LOL. That has to be a joke! I think the RB weighs about 9 times what the 7 does. Back in the 90's I covered
racing cycling in Europe, most of it from the back of a motorcycle, and one of my weapons of choice was the
RZ with a 110mm, hand-grip, nikon flash and prism finder with a 220 back. A TOTAL BEAST!

Opinions differ. Yeah the RB's large too but it's not held at eye level and neither does it work like a Leica/Mamiya/Fuji or any other camera.
I think they something about different strokes. Whoever "they" are

rowghani · Mar 22, 2016

Hey they definetly are not for everybody but I love them. The main reason for using them is the quiet shutter. There is also physics that says they have superior glass but im sure that will be argued till the cows come home.....I also prefer how the view finder shows the outside of the frame and that they are lighter in weight and usually smaller.

antmar · Mar 22, 2016

I had exactly the same problem a few years ago when I tried to use rangefinder cameras after many years of experience with SLR cameras. I almost hated them (a Leica M3, a Leica M6 and a Mamiya 6). I decided to sell them but a good friend of mine gave me the advice to give them some time.
I followed his advice and now I enjoy and use them as much or even more than my SLRs.
So I will give you the same advice: Give it some time, Mamiya 7 is an incredible camera.

craigclu · Mar 22, 2016

Be patient. I predict that in short order what you find distracting initially will become a welcome, fast tool. Learn to subconsciously let the frame lines simply frame your mental image and the split image confirm focus. The mechanical commotion of the slr will then become an unwelcome intrusion once accustomed to the RF. I use both, interchangeably, and I think it is simply a conditioning and familiarization process.

Doc W · Jul 4, 2016

Followup:

I really appreciated the advice on this and as many of you suggested, I ran more film through it. The one thing that really impresses me about this camera is the glass. Very sharp and contrasty (in good way). I found that it got easier to use and to focus and I was really growing to like it.

THEN, I realized that I cannot move in with it. Even with the 150mm lens, there is too much in the frame for the kind of portraiture and close shot that I like. That is very frustrating and that was the show stopper for me. I really need to able to get close.

Nonetheless, I like the camera enough that I think I am going to keep it, with the 80mm lens. I have all four lenses for it (the 43mm, 65mm, 80mm, and 150mm) so I think I will sell off the others to finance other projects, including upgrading the lenses on my RB67. I want to get the K/L versions of both the 90mm and 180mm.

Many of you reacted in strong disagreement to what John Koehrer said:

IMO it's too large. I've used rf's for years but the Mamiya 7 is just too cumbersome. I'd rather use the RB67.

However, I have to say that I kind of agree with him. Once you get used to the RB, it is not at all cumbersome, whereas many of us find rangefinders quite difficult to use. I shoot a lot of large format and I call my RB67 my "point and shoot." The Mamiya 7 with the 80mm lens will make a great travel camera, even with the limitations I mentioned (As I type this, I am thinking I may even keep the 65mm also.)

Thanks again for the discussion. It was very helpful to me.

Dismayed · Jul 8, 2016

John Koehrer said:
IMO it's too large. I've used rf's for years but the Mamiya 7 is just too cumbersome. I'd rather use the RB67.

The Mamiya 7 cumbersome when compared to an RB67? Surely you jest!

Range Finders - is there something wrong with me?

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