Ran out of magenta!

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

I'm trying to print some negs today on a Durst M305, which is new to me. I am using Kodak Ra/Rt without starter in a Nova Trimate at 95 degress F. The paper is Fuji CA matte. My magenta filtration is at the max of 130, and y/m booster switch is on, giving about 180M. I still have a strong magenta cast, but the Y and C are fine. The borders are white. My question is, is my enlarger head shot, or is this an effect the Fuji/Kodak mismatch? Can I compensate with a different temperature, or do I need a new enlarger (or temporary use of under-the-lens filters)? thanks.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 11, 2010

When you print RA, you should only be using the yellow and magenta filters only. Are you doing that?

Photo Engineer · Oct 11, 2010

There have been problems reported with CA paper. It seems that CAII paper, released in about 2006, has some problems and requires either a different developer or development time. You should look for other similar posts here and the resolution. Since I don't use CA or CAII, I did not follow the threads all that closely. Sorry.

PE

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

Yes. I'm not new to color printing, just this combination of materials and equipment. And I guess it's been a while

bblhed · Oct 11, 2010

I'm not seeing what film you are using, or are you just doing time tests? I have heard of this Magenta and also Blue with Ektar 100.

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

Photo Engineer; said:
There have been problems reported with CA paper. It seems that CAII paper, released in about 2006, has some problems and requires either a different developer or development time. You should look for other similar posts here and the resolution. Since I don't use CA or CAII, I did not follow the threads all that closely. Sorry.

PE

I've read most of those, and couldn't find anything about specific filtration problems. I wish I could just go to the store and buy a box of Kodak paper!

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

bblhed; said:
I'm not seeing what film you are using, or are you just doing time tests? I have heard of this Magenta and also Blue with Ektar 100.

Superia 400, developed in Rollei C41. The same problem occurred with lab-processed Fuji pro stuff, so I think I can eliminate that as a variable.

Photo Engineer · Oct 11, 2010

Get a CC 50 M filter and add it to your light path. Get more than one, just in case. Then you can go 100M total greater than you can now. Also, use of a fresh filter will tell you if your enlarger filtration is bad.

PE

pentaxuser · Oct 11, 2010

Here's a long shot. When I first started RA4 printing, I kept on getting a strong reddish/magenta cast despite altering the dials then I discovered I was changing the dials OK but had forgotten to lower the white light lever which puts the filter in place! So I was printing without filters.

Sounds ridiculous I know but as it was new to me I had got so "het-up" that I had simply forgotten to put the filters back in place. I must have printed about 10 prints raising the magenta each time until I was tearing my hair out before I took a break, calmed down and suddenly I spotted that the white light lever was still up.

This may not be what has happened but it is funny how the brain can have a blind spot when things go wrong.

Best of luck if it isn't as simple as this

pentaxuser

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

Photo Engineer; said:
Get a CC 50 M filter and add it to your light path. Get more than one, just in case. Then you can go 100M total greater than you can now. Also, use of a fresh filter will tell you if your enlarger filtration is bad.

PE

That's my plan for tomorrow. In the meantime, I put a cheapo plastic multigrade filter on top of the neg carrier and it seems to be doing the trick, but I've had to introduce cyan filtration now...so I'll definitely be getting those real filters tomorrow.

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

pentaxuser; said:
Here's a long shot. When I first started RA4 printing, I kept on getting a strong reddish/magenta cast despite altering the dials then I discovered I was changing the dials OK but had forgotten to lower the white light lever which puts the filter in place! So I was printing without filters.

Best of luck if it isn't as simple as this

pentaxuser

Oh geez! That's definitely not it (but I did have to track down a manual for this thing to learn about all these switches and levers - my old color rigs were much simpler).

pentaxuser · Oct 11, 2010

I have had problems in the past with Fuji MP I think it was but never in the magenta direction. Mine was the opposite, a slight cyan cast which I couldn't get rid of even when reducing Yand M to zero. I needed to add C. I think I had been sold defective paper. New paper cured the problem.

I haven't done any RA4 for a few years but I'd prefer to use Kodak paper but it is no longer sold in sheets and cutting rolls is something I am worried about.

You seem to have done everything right. I'd want to alert the stockist about this. There is no way that Fuji paper should need this level of magenta. It seems to be unuseable as it is.

pentaxuser

PS here's another long shot that again insults your intelligence unfortunately but I am still looking for a simple and obvious cause. As you dial in the magenta I take it that the easel or paper used for focusing goes more magenta as you do this? In other words is there any possibility that the dial isn't actually increasing the magenta?

It's clutching at straws I know

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

Checked that too

It's probably the enlarger. Now that I think about it, I tried some Vc paper in here a while back before I started doing color again, and I could not get high enough contrast with it.

Ed Sukach · Oct 11, 2010

A great deal depends on the film and color temperature of the exposure. At times, cyan filtration must be introduced to provide a "jumping off" plane for yellow and magenta.
Were you using "Daylight" balanced film an taking the exposure with tungsten (or sodium, florescent, open flame (??) illumination?
I ran a series of "Fine Art" photographs where the only source of light was provided by transparencies projected onto the model with a Hasselblad PCP80 projector. The lamp in this puppy burns at something like 3600K, but al bets would be off anyway after the light passed through the transparencies. Without the use of an analyzer (ColorStar 3000) I would have either quit or be residing in a rubber room to this day. Yes, the only way to get "balanced" was to use cyan filtration.
I think you best bet would be to follow PE's advice and introduce an external magenta filter.

pentaxuser · Oct 11, 2010

cbphoto said:
Checked that too

It's probably the enlarger. Now that I think about it, I tried some Vc paper in here a while back before I started doing color again, and I could not get high enough contrast with it.

Check the dual or single flitration figures supplied with the paper and use them. If each grade change doesn't produce a noticeable difference from at least grade 1 to 4 then it suggests that your filtration on the enlarger isn't working properly.

I don't know how easy the following would be but try cutting out the dichroic head filtration and use under the lens colour filters and see what filtration cuts out the magenta cast.

If it is a lot lower than the present 130 plus the extra bit that can be dialled in then it is certainly a problem with the dichroic head filters

pentaxuser

cbphoto · Oct 11, 2010

Yeah, I only judged the color on daylight or flash negs.

Mark Antony · Oct 18, 2010

Another thing to check is the bulb, as the bulb ages it changes colour temp and can give problems. Dichroic filters can also age (doubt that's the issue)
Mark

ic-racer · Oct 18, 2010

Some of the bigger Durst dichroic heads have an accessory slide in filter built into the head for these situations.

Ran out of magenta!

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