Ran out of Hypo-Wash...Can I stil....

SilverGlow · Dec 2, 2008

I ran out of Hypo-wash, and won't be able to pick up a bottle until this weekend....if I develop some ISO 400 B&W film tonight, can I still get good results without Hypo-Wash? I suspect this means I'll have to wash a lot longer after the fix, yea?

Please help and thanks.

More more thing....if I ever run out of Stop-Bath, can I just add fixer and go on from there, and if so, what must I do differently in this case?

Thanks again!

david b · Dec 2, 2008

Just wash a little longer. I never use hypo clear.

For me, it is prewash, developer, water stop bath, fix, 4 tanks of water, then photo-flo

Anscojohn · Dec 2, 2008

More more thing....if I ever run out of Stop-Bath, can I just add fixer and go on from there, and if so, what must I do differently in this case?

*****
Don't go right into the fixer without a water rinse or stop bath.
Some of the old lab rats who taught me darkroom insisted that water, rather than a real stop bath, "gives better shadow detail..." Well, mebbe.

Theoretically, the fixer won't last as long without a "short stop" between developer and fixer.

For myself, I almost always use a stop bath; that is because a fresh stop bath is recommended with high-sulfite developers like the straight D23 I use. In hard water, with high sulfite, negs can have a scum left on them; but a fresh stop bath obviates the problem, in my experience.

In a pinch I have used Heinz White Vinegar from Costco for an emergency stop bath, diluted 1:1 with water. Purists might object because white vinegar is for cooking, not photography. Still, in a pinch......

Hmm, wonder if I could use stop bath to make my barbecue sauce?? (vbg)

PhotoJim · Dec 2, 2008

This might be getting slightly complex, but if you use an alkaline fix (like Photographer's Formulary's TF-4) you don't need to use a stop bath. I use a 60-second running water rinse. Because the developer and fixer are alkaline, the slight carryover doesn't cause any harm.

You can also avoid using hypo clearing agent because alkaline fixer is much easier to rinse out. I use a 15-minute running water wash but a third of that is apparently okay. (Research before you use 5 minutes please. )

Even with an acid fixer, an extended wash will work fine although the wash time can be quite significant (30 minutes or more). I haven't used an acid fixer with film for years so I've forgotten the details of wash procedure with film.

Travis Nunn · Dec 2, 2008

I never use stop bath, only water. It's worked fine for me. I also don't use a hypo clearing agent anymore; I use the Ilford wash method (modified, I actually throw in one extra wash cycle). I've experienced no problems.

SilverGlow · Dec 2, 2008

Everyone, thanks a lot!

ann · Dec 2, 2008

most modern films no longer require HCA.

Ian Grant · Dec 2, 2008

No modern films need a Hypo clear. It's that simple, hypo clear is only really needed to help clear hypo from the paper base of Fibre based papers.

Ian

ann · Dec 2, 2008

ian,

i am not sure, but i thought someplace i read something about the elfe (sP) needing HCA?

we don't use that film at school and i have never tested it myself so this could just be cyber tales

gainer · Dec 2, 2008

Anscojohn said:
More more thing....if I ever run out of Stop-Bath, can I just add fixer and go on from there, and if so, what must I do differently in this case?

*****
Don't go right into the fixer without a water rinse or stop bath.
Some of the old lab rats who taught me darkroom insisted that water, rather than a real stop bath, "gives better shadow detail..." Well, mebbe.

Theoretically, the fixer won't last as long without a "short stop" between developer and fixer.

For myself, I almost always use a stop bath; that is because a fresh stop bath is recommended with high-sulfite developers like the straight D23 I use. In hard water, with high sulfite, negs can have a scum left on them; but a fresh stop bath obviates the problem, in my experience.

In a pinch I have used Heinz White Vinegar from Costco for an emergency stop bath, diluted 1:1 with water. Purists might object because white vinegar is for cooking, not photography. Still, in a pinch......

Hmm, wonder if I could use stop bath to make my barbecue sauce?? (vbg)

Heinz White vinegar is 5% acetic acid, as pure as it needs to be for this purpose. It says so right on the label IIRC. As for the sauce, I think the vinegar is cheaper as well as safer.

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2008

ann said:
ian,

i am not sure, but i thought someplace i read something about the elfe (sP) needing HCA?

we don't use that film at school and i have never tested it myself so this could just be cyber tales

I've never come across anything about films needing HCA, I guess I first used Adox films back in the early 70's, while EFKE still used the old Schlessinger/Dupont trade name. The EFKE (Adox) films were the first thin layer films when introduced and they should fix & wash easier than many other films.

Ian

ann · Dec 3, 2008

thanks , Ian.
i will certainly put more value to your statement than to the cyber space jockey

pnance · Dec 3, 2008

My recollection from the Kodak data sheets was to use HCA to shorten wash times, it wasn't required.

Ian Grant · Dec 3, 2008

pnance said:
My recollection from the Kodak data sheets was to use HCA to shorten wash times, it wasn't required.

That's correct but it's not required Kodak just want you to buy more HCA

Ian

cmo · Dec 3, 2008

If you just use the Ilford washing method you save two things:

- HCA
- Tremendous amounts of water

The method works with all kinds of films.

If you need a stop bath I recommend cheap citric acid. It does not smell at all and does the job.

dancqu · Dec 3, 2008

cmo said:
If you just use the Ilford washing method you save two
things: - HCA - Tremendous amounts of water
The method works with all kinds of films.

If you need a stop bath I recommend cheap citric acid.
It does not smell at all and does the job.

Hear, Hear! I doubt there are any darkroom processing
procedures where the result of RUNNING water is anything
less than a BIG waste.

Keep at room temperature a Jug of wash water ready to use.
Warmer water has proven to do a more thorough cleaning in
the same amount of time. The Ilford sequence, or similar,
makes practical the use of warmer water. I conduct the
sequence leisurely so time is allowed for the fixer's
outward diffusion. Clean up and shelving are done
twixt the now and then few agitations. Dan

cmo · Dec 4, 2008

dancqu said:
Keep at room temperature a Jug of wash water ready to use. Warmer water has proven to do a more thorough cleaning in
the same amount of time. The Ilford sequence, or similar,
makes practical the use of warmer water.

Actually, the film manufacturers rely on our skill... the skill to adjust the water tap in a way that the water always has the same temperature over the whole washing time. I must admit that I never managed to do this properly, especially because the plumber did not integrate a digitally controlled, NASA-approved thermostatic valve into our house. In fact, our shower is digital: in the morning I can choose between a scald and an ice cube barrage on my head.

Films do not like such contrast baths, even modern emulsions. Reticulation is rare today, but it can still happen. If you like the old-fashioned unhardened Adox films, the manufacturer prescribes to use all baths at the same temperature, and that includes the washing water.

That's one more reason to keep some water at room temperature in a canister in your darkroom.

Ran out of Hypo-Wash...Can I stil....

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency