Ralph Gibson over exposure and overdeveloment question?

stradibarrius · Dec 17, 2010

This is an experiment trying to learn and use Ralph Gibson method of over exposing and over developing Tri-X.
I just shot a roll of Tri-X 400/ Arista Premium at ISO 200. That is a one stop overexposure.
Now to over develop it should I use a time for ISO 800 which would be a 1 stop overexposure from normal ISO 400?

stradibarrius · Dec 17, 2010

I have a time from the Massive Development Chart for Tri-X 400@800 of 16.5 min @20C. ISO 400 @400 is 14min, 20% would be 17.5???? Which do you think would be better as a starting place?

stradibarrius · Dec 17, 2010

Thanks Greg for pointing me in the right direction!

chriscrawfordphoto · Dec 17, 2010

EI 800 is underexposing, not overexposing, so what you're doing is pushing the film one stop.

Lyn Arnold · Dec 17, 2010

Max Marinucci might chime in here. Not long ago he posted in a thread about Ralph Gibson. According to Max, Gibson exposes Tri-X @ 100 and uses Rodinal 1:25 for around 11 minutes. You might be able to find the post.

I tried this a couple of days ago. The day was cloudy with a bit of rain in the city -- lots of bright reflections on the wet pavement.

Most of the negs look awful -- very overexposed. But I guess I didn't follow directions very well -- Gibson uses Sunny 16 and exposes for the highlights -- I just relied on my in-camera meter.

I'll get to the darkroom after Christmas and see what they can produce in the enlarger.

Gim · Dec 17, 2010

I read an interview once where Gibson said he rated tri-x 200-400 and developed as above. Rodinal 1:25, 11 minutes. I'm sure another interview, over the last 40 years, can be found where he said different.

Jim

Trask · Dec 18, 2010

Flipping to page 63 in the book "Darkroom" by Lustrum Press, where there's a whole interview with Gibson about his technique, he says he rates Tri-X from 100 to 400, develops in Rodinal 1:25 at 68F for 11 minutes, with ten seconds agitation every 90 seconds by rolling the tank on its side. He writes:

"To develop Tri-X, I use 10cc of Rodinal for every roll. If I am developing two rolls of film in a two-reel tank, I fill the tank with water at 68F to within a quarter of an inch of the brim. Then I pour in 20cc of developer and stir...An 11 minute development time with agitation every minute and a half for ten seconds yields a contrasty negative having the appearance of blocked highlights...the only negative that I consider interesting is the overexposed, overdeveloped one."

There's a whole chapter by Gibson, so if you're interested in his work, you may wish to pick up a copy.

pmu · Dec 18, 2010

My teacher who has connections with Mr Gibson told me that nowadays Gibson is doing (or someone else is doing for him) larger prints digitally (you know, scanning & computer stuff).

I would like to know what is the technique / gear used in that process... Over exposed and over developed negatives sound like a nightmare to scan.

removed account4 · Dec 18, 2010

barry

you might consider bracketing your exposures
so you have some negatives that are 2 stops
some that are 3 stops &C over exposed,
and shoot in a handful of different lighting situations so
you can judge which of your group looks best for your use.

i regularly over expose my film by at least 2 or 3 stops
and over develop my film. some of the results are less than
stellar, but depending on the light and atmosphere some (other frames)
can look pretty good.
no-high contrast scenes tend to look the best, so the highlights sing.

good luck !
john

Christiaan Phleger · Dec 18, 2010

One Crucial element about that Gibson Darkroom technique that few notice is that he is printing with a Leitz Focomat Ic with a 212 bulb, which is the twice the wattage of the usual 211 bulb. F-stop is 5.6 for 15 sec, on *Graded* paper, he's able to blast right thru those super dense parts, and his Rodinal technique allows those dense parts to still print thru, admittedly at the expense of the lower end of the print shadows. Oh yeah, extended time in the print developer helps this look as well.

stradibarrius · Dec 19, 2010

Well here a few of the shots that came form the first roll. The film is Arista Premium 400 (Tri-X 400) developed in Rodinal 1+50 for 16.7 min.
The scanned pretty well. I am not sure I can tell any real difference than the way I would normally shoot the film. I may try again and use Rodinal 1+25 as described in the book.

Working things out for yourself helps me understand better.

Christiaan Phleger · Dec 19, 2010

That last shot is close to the look. You really need to blast it in exposure, blast it in Rodinal 1:25 and over-develop, and then be able to blast thru the density on the printing stage, then over-develop the print, and that really does it for the Gibson look. He shows his hand holding up a normal neg and one of his and most normal printing people would think that his neg is totally unusable it is so dense, but that how he does it for his look. Quite handy at times.
NExt time try going way too far in everything.

perkeleellinen · Dec 19, 2010

When I tried I agitated vigorously for the first 60 seconds, then 15 seconds in every minute. By vigorous I mean turning the tank 180 degrees and back every second. So about 15 of those agitations/inversions each minute and 60 of them at the start.

Ralph Gibson over exposure and overdeveloment question?

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