Rain Water Barrels

DMJ · Dec 14, 2021

This year I received two rainwater barrels from the L.A. county for free. I installed them and now, with the rain from the past days in Socal, I have 110 gallons of water; the barrels are overflowing right now. I filtered some through a coffee filter and measured the ph. The reading gave me pH of 7.

What is the proper filter, one that can easily connect to the spout of the barrel to fill 5 gallon jugs to use the water in my darkroom?

AgX · Dec 14, 2021

I rather would say "the same as one mains water feed" if you got a filter there. However such filter is under the mains pressure, a filter at your barrel is under low to no pressure.
The easiest way is to use a large funnel and a filter for classic filter coffee.,

But this needs standing aside. But my impression is that you are looking for something in-line.

peter k. · Dec 14, 2021

Your talking about water off of your roof?
If so is it metal or shingle?
If shingle would not use in darkroom!
BTW We collect rain off a shingle roof, which is deposited into an underground reservoir and then pump this water into ten 55 gallon barrels that are located around the garden perimeter, high and low.. The water from the shingle roof gets to settle out in the reservoir for several days, before we pump into the 55 gal drums but any substances from the shingles, tar, sealers, ect are most likely impacted within the water and would be very difficult to filter out.

BrianShaw · Dec 14, 2021

In LA we have had so little rain that no matter what roofing material, there is sure to be lots of dirt/silt to let settle and filter.

Good for you to be collecting rainwater. I took advantage of County-sponsored composting bins. Not free but “at cost”. Trying to talk wife into rainwater collecting but the talks not going well. She hates the look and fears (more) mosquitoes.

In general, though, I thought the intent was for agricultural use. Perhaps that would be more suited for rainwater than drinking or processing film.

removed account4 · Dec 14, 2021

a diatomaceous earth filter

Vaughn · Dec 14, 2021

The only personal experience I have had with this was 35 years ago using roof-collected water from a water tank of an unused farm house in NSW. It was on a dairy farm, so I used one or two large round paper filters used for milk. They filtered out the larvae and other stuff from the water to develop 4x5 film from a 5+ month solo bicycle tour in New Zealand. I had to stop for awhile in the early morning hours until a lightning storm passed by, as my window covering were just meant to keep out the starlight and any ( very little) stray light from the main farm house.

The results were clean -- I had much more issues with high-humidity static discharges while the exposed film sat in boxes on the bicycle up to a couple thousand miles. The mountain (Mt Doom) image took a lot of spotting in the upper left to remove the static marks, while the church sky is pretty nice.

Kino · Dec 14, 2021

I would go buy a small electric drill pump with water hose fittings and place a cheap, whole-house in-line filter with activated charcoal filters at the outlet. You could make this portable and just go drop a hose into the barrel and pump out what you need through the filter into jugs.

Just as an example (not an endorsement):
Pump: https://www.acehardware.com/brands/...VdAaICR1AHgmmEAQYAyABEgKaQvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Filter housing: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/water-treatment/water-filters/4396024
Filters: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/water-treatment/water-filters/4548996
and some pipe fittings, etc.

If you use a variable speed drill, you can be sure to not over pressure the filter.

DMJ · Dec 14, 2021

AgX said:
The easiest way is to use a large funnel and a filter for classic filter coffee.

Yes! That's how I got some into a jug for pH testing. Very veeery slow though.

peter k. said:
If shingle would not use in darkroom!

I have asphalt shingles and I hate them, the filters on the barrels are catching the granules.

BrianShaw said:
She hates the look and fears (more) mosquitoes.

Here is the opposite, my wife is the one who wants all those things. We get mosquitoes no matter what, someone must have a pool or pond in the neighborhood.

Vaughn said:
The mountain (Mt Doom) image

looks great! I'm a big fun of Tolkien, not so much of Peter Jackson's movies, to put it nicely. I'm sure your trip was epic and with a large format camera! I looked into farm milk filters and they are around 100 microns (coffee filters are 25) but I don't know if that really matters for darkroom use. I will use the water at least for the stop bath and washing, not sure about the developer and fixer but I will try.

@Kino Thanks for the links, I think I'm going to do that, small pump with an in-line filter. I'm trying to make it simple and low cost.

Vaughn · Dec 14, 2021

Anything of great import can have a final rinse of distilled water (w/ a drop or two of Photo flo for film).
Fixer is pretty simple hardy stuff, too.

The water I was using had no fines in it as it was covered and well-settled -- so I was mostly after the things swimming in it.

So glad I was in NZ before LOTR was filmed and released! Going hours without a vehicle passing me while on the push bike was not uncommon in many areas. There were still a lot of gravel roads. On one stretch of 140 km of gravel on the North Island, I went over the handlebars with the bike fully loaded following me, about 200 meters before the pavement started...on Christmas Day. But the only crash over 5 months and somewhere around 3500 km...so it might as well be a good one that I could still ride away from.

beemermark · Dec 14, 2021

Anything off the roof or gutters will either settle to the bottom or float on the surface. Just skim the surface and the water should be clean. I think you said you pored it thru a coffee filter. Was there any contaminants?

mshchem · Dec 15, 2021

Kino said:
I would go buy a small electric drill pump with water hose fittings and place a cheap, whole-house in-line filter with activated charcoal filters at the outlet. You could make this portable and just go drop a hose into the barrel and pump out what you need through the filter into jugs.

Just as an example (not an endorsement):
Pump: https://www.acehardware.com/brands/...VdAaICR1AHgmmEAQYAyABEgKaQvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Filter housing: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/water-treatment/water-filters/4396024
Filters: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/water-treatment/water-filters/4548996
and some pipe fittings, etc.

If you use a variable speed drill, you can be sure to not over pressure the filter.

Excellent suggestion. Whole house filters can be simple "string" filters super cheap. Rain water is an excellent source of water. An effective biocide would be a good idea for storing water.
Cisterns used to be used for laundry, cooking, etc.

DMJ · Dec 15, 2021

beemermark said:
Anything off the roof or gutters will either settle to the bottom or float on the surface. Just skim the surface and the water should be clean. I think you said you pored it thru a coffee filter. Was there any contaminants?

I don't know but the water is colorless and odorless after filtration, didd't have the courage to taste it...yet.

@mshchem Whole house filters are great but never installed one. I had a reverse osmosis filter in the kitchen but it wasted a lot of water so I use a different system now.

Our water where I live comes from two sources: water from the Metropolitan Water District (surface water from the Colorado River and the State Water Project in northern California.) and groundwater from local deep wells. We get the annual water quality report mailed and is available on the city website.

We try to save as much water as possible here. The state gave us the funds to change our grass lawns into native gardens but unfortunately many people still prefer to have green lawns and poorly managed sprinkler systems. It is still common to see water running to the street so I think to be able to collect rainwater is great. Though, the city/state should have had these programs 20 years ago. The logistics/funds aren't the problem but to educated people takes many years.

removedacct1 · Dec 15, 2021

Get an inexpensive TDS meter to measure the dissolved solids content. If you measure more than approximately 40ppm tds, you should probably filter out the mineral content before using.

BrianShaw · Dec 15, 2021

Since you are one of the few Angelenos that know the water sources and know about the annual water report… I applaud you and assume that you read it. Our municipal water is actually fairly good overall. A few years ago they cleaned our water mainline. We were told that despite cloudiness during that process our water was okay and would clear up quickly. Which it did. But I wish I hadn’t looked since we are near the end of our line and, just as the workers said… that’s where the sediments go. But we don’t seem to see it in our faucet strainers so it most not move much. In my part of the County we are still prone to contamination from government and industry pollution sources, both chemical and radioactive. Not sure how that impacts roof runoff water so I, personally , wouldn’t drink too much of it. My dog, who laps it up with wild abandon, is healthy so it must not be too bad. Also not sure if any of this is a problem for film processing.

Luckless · Dec 15, 2021

If you're not trying to prep it for drinking, then there is a far lower barrier to use for rainwater capture. And unless you have a really really good reason to go after treating it to be fully potable, then I don't think there is much reason to. However a basic UV treatment may be worth considering if you are leaving the water for extended periods after rainfall, or if your skin is prone to open wounds. Skin is fairly tough to pathogens on its own, but if you're prone to lots of bleeding hangnails and the like, then you really don't want to be sticking your hands in untreated water all that often.

Any spores or microorganisms that might collect off your roof are nearly just as likely to find their way to the film floating in the air, and the water your collecting is the same rainfall that makes its way into local reservoirs - A simple under-sink filter unit should do fine to bring you to the same range of water quality as tap water, minus any extra chemical treatment.

Remember to watch out for running any booster pumps dry if using to pressurize the filter. And remember to ensure that the drain side of the filter has a higher capacity than the source side - Either overflow down a drain/outside/whatever, or have bigger tanks on your treated side than you have on your untreated side. I always like to design water systems with the assumption that any float switch to turn off a pump will fail, and that the whole thing shouldn't flood a basement in that case. But my career is in QA, so I'm possibly more paranoid about failure modes than most people?

mshchem · Dec 15, 2021

DMJ said:
I don't know but the water is colorless and odorless after filtration, didd't have the courage to taste it...yet.

@mshchem Whole house filters are great but never installed one. I had a reverse osmosis filter in the kitchen but it wasted a lot of water so I use a different system now.

Our water where I live comes from two sources: water from the Metropolitan Water District (surface water from the Colorado River and the State Water Project in northern California.) and groundwater from local deep wells. We get the annual water quality report mailed and is available on the city website.

We try to save as much water as possible here. The state gave us the funds to change our grass lawns into native gardens but unfortunately many people still prefer to have green lawns and poorly managed sprinkler systems. It is still common to see water running to the street so I think to be able to collect rainwater is great. Though, the city/state should have had these programs 20 years ago. The logistics/funds aren't the problem but to educated people takes many years.

Lawns, even here where we don't need sprinklers are problematic. Rain water should for the most part be mineral free, very soft water. My next door neighbors are in their early 80's, they use Rain water for laundry, perfect! and garden plants. RO is a water waster, wouldn't be so bad if I could collect the effluent for toilets etc. I have a water softener as well, water here is extremely hard, unsoftened lime destroys everything.

DMJ · Dec 15, 2021

I would say 20% of the block have a water-saving lawn. I have an improvised gravity system to use the grey water from the washing machine to water my trees in my backyard. The hose from the machine goes into a 50 gallons drum. We use the Oasis Biocompatible Laundry Detergent. When I started doing this the city it was illegal to have any sort of grey water system. Now the city encourages it.

@paulbarden Thanks. Got a TDS and pH combo for less than $15 on Amazon.

mshchem · Dec 15, 2021

DMJ said:
I would say 20% of the block have a water-saving lawn. I have an improvised gravity system to use the grey water from the washing machine to water my trees in my backyard. The hose from the machine goes into a 50 gallons drum. We use the Oasis Biocompatible Laundry Detergent. When I started doing this the city it was illegal to have any sort of grey water system. Now the city encourages it.

@paulbarden Thanks. Got a TDS and pH combo for less than $15 on Amazon.

Excellent!!!

Rain Water Barrels

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