Ragu jars for developer, etc

FWIW, Ryuji Suzuki has this page that describes the merits of various materials for use as storage bottles. The quick summary: Glass provides the best seal against outside air, PET (aka PETE, #1 recycling symbol) is good, HDPE (#2 recycling symbol) provides poor gas barrier protection but is OK for most non-developer chemicals. Note that I'm not an expert on this area myself; most of my knowledge comes from Suzuki's page and other discussions of the matter on the Web.

AgX said:

One of the first things I learned about (photo-)chemistry was, never ever to store chemicals in containers once intended for food etc.

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Sound theoretical advice, but the more you think about it, the less important it is for the vast majority of photo-chemicals.

(1) How much could you get down your neck?

(2) How long would it stay there? You'd vomit it up before it could do much harm.

(3) How often do you pour yourself a glass of wine (or anything else) from a bottle stored in the darkroom?

(4) If you did pour yourself a drink in the darkroom, how likely are you not to notice that the colour and smell are wrong?

(5) If you pour yourself a drink ANYWHERE, how likely are you to do so without looking at the label on the bottle? I mean, I have some wines I'd only use for cooking anyway...

If you have no dedicated darkroom, the risks are greater, but still not enormous. Only if you have children do you need to worry very much: lots of things that adults drink (beer, whisky, etc) taste awful to most children but they're willing to persist in the hope that they will find out what the attraction is.

I'd suggest that yours is a counsel of perfection, but not necessarily all that important for everyone. Only drinking from glasses (not bottles) is probably much more useful.

Cheers,

Roger

eclarke said:

I have a dedicated darkroom which has no other activities and we have no children, relatives or young guests so I have no fear of poisoning anybody. I also have labels on all containers..EC

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Exactly. Otherwise I forget what's in the bloody things...

Cheers,

Roger

Roger Hicks said:

Exactly. Otherwise I forget what's in the bloody things...

Cheers,

Roger

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YES!!! Label everything. I have forgotten which chem I just mixed 5 minutes ago.

I've been known to forget where I put my morning coffee! Pretty bad, huh?

This reminds me of a Yogism. (Yogi Berra--baseball player and full time sage for those not in the know). Someone came up to Yogi and asked what time it was. Yogi asked, "You mean now?"

Has anyone tried wine boxes? It seems they'd be ideal since the bag inside (theoretically) prevents oxidation.

I'll have to finish that box at home to give it a whirl.

Oh, and I suppose it would be best to completely cover the drink label to avoid accidental ingestion. Although I know someone who drank some bleach (potassium cyanide) thinking it was chardonnay (some people aren't very sophisticated wine drinkers) and came out fine.

Gabe Racz said:

Oh, and I suppose it would be best to completely cover the drink label to avoid accidental ingestion. Although I know someone who drank some bleach (potassium cyanide) thinking it was chardonnay (some people aren't very sophisticated wine drinkers) and came out fine.

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Heard he went back for seconds.

tim in san jose

I use a lot of whisky bottles, Jim Beam 1.75 holds just enough developer. The smaller ones, 750ml, are good for stock solutions. Apple juice bottles work really well too. I have found that the plastic is very thick on them and they can be had in large sizes.

patrickjames said:

I use a lot of whisky bottles, Jim Beam 1.75 holds just enough developer. The smaller ones, 750ml, are good for stock solutions......

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Patrick,

Next time you need new bottles let me know. I'd be pleased to come over to your place and help you drain out the original contents!

copake_ham said:

I congratulate your ingeniuty!

BTW: Has anyone here yet figured out what the heck a "digital tripod" is?

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From all the ones I've seen, it's a woefully flimsy tripod suitable only for holding a P&S digital camera weighing 4 oz or less.

A small local recycle store (The ReStore) accepts usable surplus from businesses in the area for resale to artist and crafters. Last time I stopped in I got three empty 4 liter brown glass bottles that had contained 'submicron filtered' water. They told me a local lab was dropping off their empties rather than recycling them. $2 each to a non-profit works for me.

k_jupiter said:

Heard he went back for seconds.

tim in san jose

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If it's bleach as used in Farmer's reducer, it's the ferricyanide, which is a much different animal. I still wouldn't drink it, but if it had been the cyanide, he would be dead, probably before you could get him to a hospital.

Funny how "we" think alike!

That very same thought came to my mind. I haven't processed BW film in over 10 years and I remember using some accordian-like containers to keep my chemicals in. They were hard to clean though.

So, after cooking some sphagetti the other night, I eyed the jar and thought about saving it (which I did) for future photo chemical storage with a good wrap of aluminum foil.

I have a few more sphagetti dinners to go before I have enough though.

LOL

Steve

copake_ham said:

BTW: Has anyone here yet figured out what the heck a "digital tripod" is?

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One of the best marketing ideas ever lol. At my old job we had albums laying around collecting dust, one day the company sent us stickers that said "perfect for digital prints", which they were indeed, they were also perfect for film prints, but they really flew off the shelf after that sticker was added.

spb854 said:

That very same thought came to my mind. I haven't processed BW film in over 10 years and I remember using some accordian-like containers to keep my chemicals in. They were hard to clean though.

So, after cooking some sphagetti the other night, I eyed the jar and thought about saving it (which I did) for future photo chemical storage with a good wrap of aluminum foil.

I have a few more sphagetti dinners to go before I have enough though.

LOL

Steve

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Interesting idea - I only have 2 concerns 1) won't the metal cover corrode and react with the chemistry. 2) Once those jars are opened for the first time and the button pops up, I'm not sure they're still air tight.

dslater said:

Interesting idea - I only have 2 concerns 1) won't the metal cover corrode and react with the chemistry. 2) Once those jars are opened for the first time and the button pops up, I'm not sure they're still air tight.

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As somebody who re-uses glass jars with metal lids, I can comment from personal experience:

The lids do tend to corrode when used with certain chemicals -- mainly acids, in my experience. Stop bath and fixers tend to cause this; developers don't. The corrosion doesn't eat away the lids immediately, though; they last for many months (probably a year or two). The lids can, of course, be replaced with newer lids before the corrosion becomes a problem.

Opening the jar doesn't prevent the seal from being air-tight once you re-seal the jar. The seal is air-tight because air won't penetrate the jar's plastic or glass material, the metal lid, or the rubber(-like?) material that forms a gasket between the jar's lip and the lid. Merely opening the jar doesn't damage any of these components, although of course you've got to close the lid tightly to have the gasket do it's job, and if the jar or the lid is physically damaged it might not be airtight any longer.

Of course, when you put chemicals into a container and seal the lid, you'll also seal in whatever air lies between the chemicals and the lid. Factory-sealed jars are usually packed in a vacuum or in a chamber with some inert gases. You can extend the life of your own chemicals by using similar principles, although on a smaller scale. Many people squirt inert gases of various types into their jars before sealing them. My own approach is to use a Pump-n-Seal, which creates a partial vacuum in an already-sealed jar. A similar product I've heard of other photographers using is the Vacu-Vin. The key difference between these two products is that the Pump-n-Seal uses the original metal lids of jars; you punch a small hole in the lid with a pin and seal that hole with a special tab that enables the pump to suck out the air. The Vacu-Vin is designed for use with wine bottles and uses special caps that you must purchase. This makes the Vacu-Vin suitable for bottles of a certain shape (with narrow necks), whereas the Pump-n-Seal is useful with a wider variety of jars. The Vacu-Vin's caps are also more expensive than the Pump-n-Seal's tabs. I don't know which device creates a better vacuum. (I'm sure neither one is anywhere close to a true vacuum, though.) When I open a jar that's been sealed with a Pump-n-Seal, even if it's been sealed shut for weeks, I hear the same sort of "schlurp" sound I hear when opening a factory-sealed jar, and the dimple in the lid pops up, indicating that the seal was indeed airtight enough to maintain that partial vacuum since I sealed the jar.

Interesting idea - I only have 2 concerns 1) won't the metal cover corrode and react with the chemistry. 2) Once those jars are opened for the first time and the button pops up, I'm not sure they're still air tight.

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I use Saran plastic wrap to keep the chemicals away from the metal part of the lids. As far as air tight, the button pop is just the vacuum seal from factory packing being released. The lids seal nicely and the plastic wrap seems to help out. I've not had any leaks so far.

I suppose if you really wanted to find out if they are air tight, you could put some vinegar and baking soda in one and after quickly sealing it, submerge it into a basin of clear water, looking for escaping gas bubbles. If you did try this, be careful about how much vinegar and soda you use as more than a few tablespoons of material might just blow the jar up! Never, ever try this with glass jars/bottles!!!

By-the-way, cleaning the jars can be made easier by adding baking soda to the hot, soapy wash water. I'm a bit compulsive about cleaning these jars/lids and I will hand wash them several times just to be sure they're clean enough for chemistry.

Eli

P.S.
I just noticed that dslater was referring to the aluminum foil spb854 mentioned. dslater, I think he meant to wrap the exterior of the jar with foil, away from the chemistry, for light proofing. My darkroom is dark 24/7, when not in use, so I don't bother.

Air in the jar

Hmmmm......

I have a Food Saver that I repackage bulk food with.

It has an attachment for evacuating canning jars using their lids.
Seeing the "vacuum" post.....made me think.

I could store the chemicals in canning jars, vacuum seal them and wrap them in aluminum foil.

Thanks!

Steve

spb854 said:

I have a Food Saver that I repackage bulk food with.

It has an attachment for evacuating canning jars using their lids.
Seeing the "vacuum" post.....made me think.

I could store the chemicals in canning jars, vacuum seal them and wrap them in aluminum foil.

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That should work; however, I'm not sure I'd want to use one device for vacuum-sealing both food and photochemistry. I'm not sure how much of a risk of cross-contamination there would be, but I'd err on the side of caution and use separate devices for the two applications unless I heard from an authoritative source that the risk of cross-contamination was very slim.

Schwepes. The square bottles store in less room.
That was years ago. A few years ago I stocked up
on Glass Boston Rounds equipped with Polycone or
Polyseal caps. Both very sure seals.

Glass Boston Rounds are standard laboratory fluid
and dry chemical storage equipment. I may never
again need shop for bottles. Dan