RA4 problems with the paper-whites

Hello group!

2009 I started to make handmade RA4 prints in my trays and the good old, but overpriced tetenal 20° chemical. The filtering was no problem und I got very fresh colors on my kodak paper.

I print with a white border around my picture. Take this as a sample:


The whites IN the picture are normal. But the paper-whites around the picture is near gray than white! I use versamask, so during the enlarging the whites cannot be in contact with light.

The paper and the chemical are fresh. My darkroom is completly dark. If i take a blank paper and fix them in the BX bath only (without development) the paper-whites are great! If I develop the paper and fix them the paper whites are gray. Curiously.

Now, after tetenal has stopped the 20° chemical, I use the 35° kit. But my problem don´t stop. After that I used a nova tank with 35°, but the paper whites are also gray.

Any Idea what the problem is? I prefer to work with trays, because the nova tank is not easy to clean.

Probable the safelight?

Have you MEASURED the whites in picture using a reflection densitometer, or just looking at RGB values in scan? It may just LOOK brighter than in borders.

For me, Tetenal blix gave slightly brownish whites even when good, and sometimes horrible staining. But, this should not be gray, and as you have found that this is fogging in developer, it might be because of old paper or paper kept at room temperature. But if this is not the case, IMO you have nothing left but try Kodak chemicals and compare if you'll get less fog that way.

For me, Tetenal room temp kit developer worked quite well and I didn't see difference in Dmin (paper whites) when moving to Kodak because of developer (I cross-tested Tetenal dev & Kodak blix).

the border whites are brighter than the dress is.

Have to mention that no RA-4 paper in any chemistry produce perfect whites like in BW prints. It's a drawback of RA-4 process papers but a very minor one. As you can see, your eyes adjust depending on subject and that makes the whites look brighter.

hka said:

Probable the safelight?

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No, I don´t use a safelight.

When our whites go it usually is a bleach fix problem, you say your using fresh chems and the test you are doing seems logical.

led lights on radio, timers, raw light coming from some source. try a test with a coin on the paper and let sit for about minute in dark and try test again.

hrst said:

Have to mention that no RA-4 paper in any chemistry produce perfect whites like in BW prints. It's a drawback of RA-4 process papers but a very minor one. As you can see, your eyes adjust depending on subject and that makes the whites look brighter.

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Yes; I like the whites of the new adox papers. First I will get a new package of fresh RA4 paper and test it again. The paper fogs in the developer and that more in less temperature.

I've seen similar problems with some papers -- some bargain-basement Konica paper that I bought on eBay a few years ago and, more recently, some UltraFine-branded paper (rebranded, maybe from Mitsubishi?). In these cases, though, the paper tends to a slightly beige-to-yellow shade, not the more blue or cyan (on my monitor) of your sample. Thus, the cause may not be the same. In the case of the Konica paper, I only had this problem when I used a particular mix-it-yourself formula; when using commercial developers, the problem went away. I don't recall if I ever used Tetenal chemistry with this paper, though. The problem was also reduced in severity, but not completely eliminated, by cutting the development time to the bare minimum. I don't yet have enough experience with the UltraFine paper to know if the same measures would fix the problem with it.

The suggestion of a light leak is certainly worth investigating. Look for red or yellow light sources in your darkroom. Go in, shut the door, turn out the lights, but leave anything running (timers, etc.) that normally run when you process paper. Wait 20 minutes, then look around. Maybe you'll spot something you've never noticed before. In my experience, color paper is much more sensitive than most B&W papers, so a leak that doesn't fog B&W paper could cause problems with color paper. Also, a leak of red light will fog color paper to a cyan hue, but won't affect B&W paper. Since you're processing in trays, the paper gets exposure during development, too. If you have access to a drum, you could try using it to reduce light exposure a bit more. Alternatively, try processing the paper with the emulsion side down, if you normally process it with the emulsion side up.

hrst said:

Have to mention that no RA-4 paper in any chemistry produce perfect whites like in BW prints. It's a drawback of RA-4 process papers but a very minor one. As you can see, your eyes adjust depending on subject and that makes the whites look brighter.

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Inclusive of laser printed RA-4?

I assume that's what he meant as the papers processed the same way after it's exposed.

Athiril said:

Inclusive of laser printed RA-4?

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Yes, it is some kind of fogging in developer. You can see it by processing an unexposed sheet. If you just blix the paper without developer, it's brighter white.

Try comparing to BW paper. The difference is clear. But, usually borders are cut out, and our eyes cannot find any problems in picture whites because there is no real white to compare with nearby.

I have seen that with old developer. Get a set of Kodak RA4 Test strips. If your developed ones don't match the included reference you have a problem. I usually run one before each session. A box isn't cheap but by the end of it I am sure I will have saved money on wasted paper, not to mention the time saved in not chasing color balance when something is off in the chemistry.