RA-4 EK - ugh!!- what's going on here?

[Lopaka]

OK - a little background first. I don't have much experience with RA-4,having spent most of my color efforts on Ilfochrome. So I started with Fuji Crystal Archive, using only recent Fuji negs to get over the initial learning curve.

Now I have a lot of older (10 years and more) Kodak negs (the predecessors of Portra-NC160) of which at least one or two might actually be worth printing. I made some prints on FCA that were reasonably good. Since I read in more than one thread here that EK negs will print better on EK paper, I picked up a box of Supra Endura glossy (the equivalent of the FCA type C I am using) from the local shop and made some prints of the same negs.

The negs printed on FCA at very close to the starting point filtration. The EK paper required more exposure (is it slower than FCA?) plus color correction of additional +30M and +30Y from starting point plus exposure to compensate for the filter change to get matching prints. (the first EK prints looked like old prints left in the sun for 30 years to bleach). The EK prints match in color balance, but the contrast is lower and the colors look dull and lifeless compared to the FCA.

So what's going on here - am I working with old EK paper that has a lot of base fog? How would I test this paper for base fog? Should I get a FRESH box from another source or just pitch it and stick with FCA?

Bob

 

[PHOTOTONE]

You don't say what brand, or formula of RA-4 chemistry you are using, or what time and temperature and method of processing you are using...all of which could influence your results.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have printed negatives that cover a time span of about 50 years with nearly the same filter pack with Endura paper. Doing it, I used over 1000 sheets from about 15 batches. I have had no problem.

I use Kodak chemistry at either 100F (Jobo) or 68F (tray) and print from 5x7 - 16x20. This involves using up to 3 or 4 emulsion batches.

I use RA-RT developer replenisher at 100F for 1' with a 30" prewet. At 68F I use 2' with no prewet.

I use 39M 69Y at f11-f16 for 12" for most prints of 35mm from 8x10.

The filter pack has changed upwards by about 15M in recent years, and the speed is about 1 stop faster than Ektacolor 37 and Ektacolor Plus. More in line with Supra III.

Those are the changes I observed having historically worked with it since about 1957.

Fuji recently announced a new paper and it requires a near 0 to cyan filter pack according to some, and it requires all new chemistry only available from Fuji. The paper announcing this was given in May of 2006 here in Rochester. The new paper uses their new tellurium sensitization, Fuji's answer to 2 electron sensitization.

Kodak and Fuji negatives should print better on Kodak paper, but Kodak negatives generally print more poorly on Fuji paper. We spent many hours assuring compatibility of all types of negatives when I worked on the project. We used to take pictures on Fuji, Sakura and Agfa negative films for test comparisons.

PE

 

[Lopaka]

You don't say what brand, or formula of RA-4 chemistry you are using, or what time and temperature and method of processing you are using...all of which could influence your results.

I am using Kodak RA-RT at 95 F, processing in a JOBO. The question remains, if the results of the Kodak paper are so poor by comparison, do I have really old paper?

Bob

 

[PHOTOTONE]

While it is to be expected that you would have different filter packs when printing on different brands of RA-4 paper, your poor results may indeed be that you have "old" paper. The only way to rule that out, is to purchase a box that you "know" to be fresh, and try it out.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Bob;

I have some supra III paper that is nearly 8 or 9 years old, and kept at room temp and it is still good. It has lost red speed and so the pictures are reddish in color compared to when the paper was fresh.

Endura, kept on my shelf for a year or two has so far shown no change.

So, if it is really bad paper, it must have been badly mistreated.

PE

 

[Jerry Basierbe]

Bob;

I have some supra III paper that is nearly 8 or 9 years old, and kept at room temp and it is still good. It has lost red speed and so the pictures are reddish in color compared to when the paper was fresh.

Endura, kept on my shelf for a year or two has so far shown no change.

So, if it is really bad paper, it must have been badly mistreated.

PE

I'm glad to hear that. I'm getting ready to get back into color with some Supra that's about 2 years old.

Jerry

 

[Lopaka]

Bob;

I have some supra III paper that is nearly 8 or 9 years old, and kept at room temp and it is still good. It has lost red speed and so the pictures are reddish in color compared to when the paper was fresh.

Endura, kept on my shelf for a year or two has so far shown no change.

So, if it is really bad paper, it must have been badly mistreated.

PE

Thanks, Ron. Loss of red speed is consistent with results, so I do have an old box. Peerhaps a little more tweaking can zero in on the color. It may also be that the Ultra rather than Supra is a closer match to FCA type C in contrast.

Bob

 

[Photo Engineer]

I use Supra Endura and I was told that the Supra III was the last paper with the red speed problem. Afaik, it has not shown up on any of my boxes of Supra Endura, but then they are not as old as the Supra III was when I last tested it.

PE