RA-4 Alternative to Fuji CA?

[1kgcoffee]

So Fuji CAII is the last man standing in cut RA-4 paper, and very decent. But has anyone had good luck with other ra-4 papers sold in rolls? These are supposedly higher contrast and saturation than regular optical ra-4 paper, and have a slight cyan cast in neutrals.

Are there any workarounds to print these optically, or is Crystal Archive our only choice?

 

[pentaxuser]

I thought that Kodak Endura in rolls was perfectly normal RA4 paper for optical printing. Slight cyan cast and workarounds! I hope that Calgary is a long way from PE's Rochester address and that he doesn't know where you live

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodak is making it in a plant in Windsor Colorado on a 72" wide machine and int 5000+ ft rolls as fast as the machine can run from what I hear. It is being used exclusively by photofinishers in bulk, but is sold in small rolls and repacked as cut sheets. I have never had a cyan cast with it.

PE

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

All of my RA4 work is produced to Kodak Endura Supra metallic (has been since 2007, interspersed with Ilfochrome Classic prints as a cheaper alternative for clients who wanted it). KES-M is machine rolls for LED exposure in a traditional RA4 chems, and no casting at all -- I don't know what is going on if you are getting cyan casts. There are several other types of media for RA4 by Kodak at my lab. They run Fuji CA for bog standard C41 prints to mum and dad customers.


Fuji CA didn't satisfy me at all and that was a long, long time ago.

 

[1kgcoffee]

My guess is reciprocity failure, for the same reason that velvia tends to get strange casts in long exposure. The Beseler 45a says in the manual that it tries to minimize this by keeping exposure times to 7.5 sec, but even this I'm afraid may be too long. This was back in the late 1980's, long before LED matured. Not a design flaw of the medium but using it outside its intended environment. I am sure there is a workaround if it is the case but there seems to be a lot of confusion. A blue tint could also be caused in development at too high a temperature. This is all speculation and I think people have shied away from newer papers without having tried them. Has anyone here had bad experience printing optically onto newer RA-4?

Poisson, are you printing optically or on an LED printer?

PE, I would love to get a small roll or some sheets if people here are getting good results printing on enlargers.

 

[MattKing]

Here is the technical publication for KODAK PROFESSIONAL ENDURA Premier Paper, one of the current Kodak papers:
http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/paper-endura-techpub-e4070.pdf

 

[pentaxuser]

A fellow member of a U.K. site uses rolls of Kodak paper and does all his prints optically. He made his own dispenser so he can cut the rolls into sheets He has no problems with casts etc The paper behaves perfectly

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

Endura can be printed by LED, laser or white light.

PE

 

[MattKing]

Endura can be printed by LED, laser or white light.

PE

And as you will note from that datasheet I linked to above, you can even do tri-colour printing using three exposures through three different filters - they even give you suggested apertures and times if you are using a PH212 enlarger bulb.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, but for technical reasons this method is very difficult for the average person.

PE

 

[MattKing]

Yes, but for technical reasons this method is very difficult for the average person.

PE

Understood - but I thought it interesting that even in these days where so much paper is printed using high volume, digital light sources, there is still attention being paid by the manufacturer to optical enlargements and one of the oldest means of printing colour.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The reason for this interest is use of RGB in the form of LEDs and Lasers.

PE

 

[MattKing]

The reason for this interest is use of RGB in the form of LEDs and Lasers.

PE

Actually PE, the data sheet reads:

"Tricolor Exposure Method Use KODAK WRATTEN Gelatin Filters No. 25 (red), No. 99 (green), and No. 47B (blue) to give the paper three separate exposures. Do not move the paper or the enlarger until you have made all three exposures. Typical exposure times for making an enlargement from a normally exposed negative are given in the table below.
****Table****
* For an enlarger equipped with a Photo Enlarger Lamp No. 212 or No. 302; the setting may vary with other types of lamps."

 

[mshchem]

Kodak is making it in a plant in Windsor Colorado on a 72" wide machine and int 5000+ ft rolls as fast as the machine can run from what I hear. It is being used exclusively by photofinishers in bulk, but is sold in small rolls and repacked as cut sheets. I have never had a cyan cast with it.

PE

Do you know who is cutting and repacking cut sheets of Kodak professional paper? I have good results with Fuji CA but it is so this and flimsy its difficult for me to handle larger sheets. All my Kodak paper is too old to fiddle with.
This has really bugged me that Alaris hasn't supplied sheets.
Best Regards, Mike

 

[Photo Engineer]

Matt, both methods (RGB LED and RGM Wratten filter) are used. I am aware of both but have only used the latter.

I know of no current sources, but perhaps someone else can help us on this. Sorry.

PE

 

[EdSawyer]

ultrafine online was cutting and repackaging Endura from rolls at one point.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I am probably one of the very few people properly equipped to do high-quality additive tricolor optical enlargements. But I've never bothered. I'm getting outstanding results right onto various Fuji RA4 papers, though some I do have to cut from big rolls. Some images benefit from supplementary unsharp masking to tweak contrast either up or down.

 

[EdSawyer]

Drew anyone using a Minolta/Beseler 45A color head is doing additive tri-color optical enlargements. (Count me in that group!)

-Ed

 

[RPC]

Or using a Philips PCS 150 color head, which I have used and so do others on this site, also PCS 2000.

 

[AgX]

But has anyone had good luck with other ra-4 papers sold in rolls?

Agfa recently cancelled their RA4-papers.

 

[NJH]

https://www.nordfoto.de/analoge-fotografie/fotopapiere/farbnegativpapier

Haven't bought from them but found the above link thanks to tip off on another forum for a European retailer confectioning Kodak Endura into sheets. Hopefully this will be of use to some readers.

 

[pentaxuser]

https://www.nordfoto.de/analoge-fotografie/fotopapiere/farbnegativpapier

Haven't bought from them but found the above link thanks to tip off on another forum for a European retailer confectioning Kodak Endura into sheets. Hopefully this will be of use to some readers.

An enterprising site and one which recognises that people still want to buy cut Kodak sheets for a small premium. Unfortunately they appear to have dropped some smaller sizes such as 5x7 when I last looked several weeks ago but this may be just a problem with the cutting scheduling i.e. the 5x7 stock had run out before the machine was scheduled to cut more

pentaxuser

 

[1kgcoffee]

Definitely going to try Kodak papers now.

Looks like Nordfoto ships only to European customers, but maybe that can be negotiated.

 

[perkeleellinen]

Unfortunately they appear to have dropped some smaller sizes such as 5x7 when I last looked several weeks ago but this may be just a problem with the cutting scheduling i.e. the 5x7 stock had run out before the machine was scheduled to cut more

I bought two boxes of 5x7 paper (200 sheets) in September, took a few days to arrive. It was cut clean, then put in heavy black bags and a box. I've printed on it and it's great paper. It requires a little movement from older Endura but it still has the same characteristic tolerance.

 

[pentaxuser]

I bought two boxes of 5x7 paper (200 sheets) in September, took a few days to arrive. .

Hopefully this means that Nordfoto does still cut 5x7 and as it was after September that I looked - about 3-4 weeks ago - it had run out of 5x7 sheets and needs to schedule another bulk cut.

I have just had another look and there is still no sign of 5x7. The smallest size seems to be 9.5 x 12. I hope it hasn't given up on cutting smaller sizes

pentaxuser