quick hints on spotmetering ?

Kim Catton · Jun 26, 2007

SO

Compose the picture.

Use spotmetering on the dark shadow in which I want some detail.

go down 2-1/2 stops.

Use (matrix 10 point system, which is in my f80?) to make Broad area reading.

Compare the two readings.

say the shadow spot reading is, after stopping: 1/125@f16
The broad area is : 1/180@f16

Use the shadow reading

say the shadow spot reading is, after stopping: 1/125@f16
The broad area is : 1/60@f16

use the Broad area

Did I get it right ?

Roger Hicks said:
Dear Kim,

'Broad area' means the subject you're photographing, from the camera position, with either the camera itself in one of its full-frame-reading modes or a hand-held, non-spot meter.

Reading the sky is wonderfully misleading. A deep blue sky is a tolerable mid-tone; a white sky (I have one outside at the moment) is typically around 4 stops brighter than grass (another tolerable mid-tone).

Now consider a scene with big puffy white clouds in a blue sky (clouds maybe 4 stops brighter than a mid-tone) and a mediaeval arcaded street with the shops 3 or 4 metres back from the street, under the overhang of the building above. Dark areas of the shop-fronts are quite likely to be 4 stops darker than a mid-tone. That's an 8-stop range. The only way to be sure of giving enough exposure, and no more, is to measure the dark areas of the shop-fronts: the darkest areas in which you want texture, in fact.

Yes, you can get the same reading in a number of other ways. A broad-area reading will give you an identical reading, at a given angle and distance from the shops -- but step back, or angle it up towards the puffy white clouds, and it'll recommend less exposure, or step forward, or angle it down, and it'll recommend more. Likewise, an incident-light or grey-card reading will give exactly the same reading -- for a very limited range of positions and angles. With experience, you can learn what those positions and angles are, which is why people get good readings that way, but there's a lot more experience and judgement involved in doing it that way than there is in taking a spot reading of the darkest area in which you want texture and detail.

Until I understood the simple fact that metering for negs is metering for the darkest area in which you want texture and detail, I wasted a lot of time with spot meters and grey cards, which is why I'm a bit evangelical about it now.

It's worth remembering that the first commercially successful spot meter (the SEI Photometer, still highly sought after today) didn't even have a mid-tone index, just shadow (for neg) and highlight (for movie). I'm not sure why they were added to later meters, because they really are of very limited usefulness.

Cheers,

Roger

Roger Hicks · Jun 26, 2007

Kim Catton said:
SO

Compose the picture.

Use spotmetering on the dark shadow in which I want some detail.

go down 2-1/2 stops.

Use (matrix 10 point system, which is in my f80?) to make Broad area reading.

Compare the two readings.

say the shadow spot reading is, after stopping: 1/125@f16
The broad area is : 1/180@f16

Use the shadow reading

say the shadow spot reading is, after stopping: 1/125@f16
The broad area is : 1/60@f16

use the Broad area

Did I get it right ?

Dear Kim,

That's it. Spot on, you might say.

Of course you can meter in either order (spot first or matrix first), and what it always comes down to is this: use the reading that recommends more exposure.

Cheers,

Roger

Kim Catton · Jun 26, 2007

BRILLIANT! thanks alot for being so helpful! Off to Scotland I am - hopefully returning with a bag full of lovely negs

kim

Chan Tran · Jun 26, 2007

For portrait as well as quick and dirty metering I think an incident light meter is much better than a spotmeter.

Roger Hicks · Jun 26, 2007

Chan Tran said:
For portrait as well as quick and dirty metering I think an incident light meter is much better than a spotmeter.

No question. A spotmeter is really only useful when you have long brightness ranges, usually in landscapes or cityscapes, or where you want to match a specific tone, e.g. the heroine's cheek. But for portraiture, where you're in control of the light, you're absolutely right.

Cheers,

Roger

Murray@uptowngallery · Jun 27, 2007

Don't make a Murray mistake - confusing Zone 'placement' with EV reading.

My chronic error is in absent-mindedly over exposing that shadow reading because I increase the exposure instead of reduce it.

What seems to help me stop making that error is to remember the exposure your spotmeter sees in the metered shadow will result in a middle gray that you don't want. I try to remember the whole point of adjusting the shadow exposure is to fool the meter/camera into making the shadow as dark as you can & keep detail.

I know it's been explained ad nauseum, including above, but I keep making the same same error error.

Roger Hicks · Jun 27, 2007

Murray@uptowngallery said:
My chronic error is in absent-mindedly over exposing that shadow reading because I increase the exposure instead of reduce it.

Dear Murray,

Frances (who also does this, though ever less often) calls it 'photo dyslexia'.

Another example of the same thing: half of 1/125 is 1/250 not 1/60...

Cheers,

Roger

eddym · Jun 27, 2007

Ya know... all this discussion has really made me realize what a brilliant idea was Fred Picker's little Zone decal that he put on his spotmeters. Makes spot metering so simple, even a caveman could do it. (Oops, was that a copyright infringement?)

Mike Wilde · Jun 27, 2007

Picker's Pentax dial lives on

I know it's not as good as the OEM product, but a copy of the thing is in the back of one of his books (which is very good at explaining personal film speed and developer time).

I took the coorect ad page, put the photocoipier at work on photo mode, and blew it up to the right size. A bit of plastic tape over the front, a bit of a trim with scissors, and a touch of two sides tape, and I know have a pentax spot meter that is indeed fool proof.

Or almost so. Sometimes I get the meter set up to give me the shadow detial that I am aiming for, confirm that the highlights won't be blown out, and then forget to adjust the shutter/aperture on the camera. I attribute this to too many years with 35mm cameras with the meter integrated into the body.

Roger Hicks · Jun 27, 2007

eddym said:
Ya know... all this discussion has really made me realize what a brilliant idea was Fred Picker's little Zone decal that he put on his spotmeters. Makes spot metering so simple, even a caveman could do it. (Oops, was that a copyright infringement?)

Dear Eddy,

Look at an old Weston Master to see where the idea came from. Or with a Pentax meter, consider I.R.E. 1. Or look at arguably the finest (and the first commercially successful) spot meter ever built, the S.E.I.

What annoys me about the Picker modification is that people think it's original. It isn't. And it overlays the Zone System (a brilliant simplification) on basic sensitometry as if the Zone System came first and told you more.

Cheers,

Roger

Chan Tran · Jun 27, 2007

On the use of the gray card. If you use a spotmeter and meter off a gray card you would have a reading close to that of an incident light meter with a flat diffuser. If there is a difference it is a constant and can be compensated for. But then I would just simply use the incident meter in such a case.

Roger Hicks · Jun 27, 2007

Chan Tran said:
On the use of the gray card. If you use a spotmeter and meter off a gray card you would have a reading close to that of an incident light meter with a flat diffuser. If there is a difference it is a constant and can be compensated for. But then I would just simply use the incident meter in such a case.

Exactly.

For a given angle of either...

Cardioid diffusers such as the Invercone REALLY make life interesting!

Cheers,

R.

Andrew Moxom · Jun 27, 2007

If you want a decent decal to place onto your spot meter, check Ralph Lambrecht's site out... Dead Link Removed Then click on library, and scroll down. You can print off a really nice PDF file with a correctly sized decal that you can tape onto your spot meter. This site is also host to many other helpful downloads.

Sirius Glass · Jun 27, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Dear Kim,

That's it. Spot on, you might say.

Of course you can meter in either order (spot first or matrix first), and what it always comes down to is this: use the reading that recommends more exposure.

Cheers,

Roger

NOW I finally understand what you have been say on your website and in this thread. Thank you.

Steve

Roger Hicks · Jun 27, 2007

Stever said:
NOW I finally understand what you have been say on your website and in this thread. Thank you.

Steve

Dear Steve,

Thanks! I'll amend www.rogerandfrances.com accordingly.

It can be hard to know when you've said something clearly. After all, I know what I mean...

Cheers,

Roger

Murray@uptowngallery · Jun 27, 2007

The other one I do is adjust exposure for a filter then forget to put the filter on!

It's harder to forget to remove a filter... "Aaaugh, my eyes! Everything's yellow..red...polarized..."

John Curran · Jun 27, 2007

I've been following this thread with a certain amount of confusion and consternation. Just meter your shadows and place them in zone III, what could be easier I thought. Until Roger mentioned the Weston Master meter. I'm using an old Weston Master II that I now have a new respect for and I'm never letting out of my sight. It makes these calculations alot easier and almost fool-proof.

Chuck_P · Jun 29, 2007

I did not read all the posts, so this may have been mentioned. When shooting black and white 35mm film exposed to changing subject brightness ranges, I have always provided adequate exposure (perhaps +.5 to 1.5, depending) to ensure good shadow detail. Then, reduce development to keep the highlights in check on the negative. Final contrast can also be adusted at the printing stage.

Chuck

rmartin · Jul 3, 2007

Fantastic thread! I followed the advice of just placing shadows 2 to 2.5 stops lower than meter last weekend for a shoot in Torrey Pines Preserve in San Diego. All of my negatives appear to be as close to perfect as I have ever been able to consistently get. I know it seems obvious but I have always been trying to pick the best middle gray. *sigh*

Maris · Jul 4, 2007

It may seem contrary but I do the opposite of most of the suggestions here. The Fred Picker idea that the best exposure is the maximum useable (not maximum possible!) exposure gives an opportunity for very fast spot metering.

I just take a reading from the brightest thing in a scene that I want represented by tone and texture, put it on zone VIII, and shoot. This is the greatest exposure I can give without losing information by blocking highlights. Everything else will be as high up the exposure scale as it can be and I will have a rich negative with lots of darkroom options.

quick hints on spotmetering ?

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