Questions about this Linhof branded Xenar 105mm f/2.9

Hello!
So today I was at the thrift store and well...picked up a Linhof 23. Not cheap for like 10 bucks sadly but well a Linhof at not ebay prices is usually a fun deal. Sadly it is not the premium Zeiss kit but the budget one, so it comes with a Xenar 105, Tele-Xenar 180 and Angulon 65. Alas! Someday I will find a full Zeiss trinity for peanuts...surely...

Regardless, what I find interesting is that the Xenar 105mm is an f/2.9 not f/3.5. All I can see online are references to the Xenar 105mm f/3.5 and checking out Linhof brochures on Laflex and Pacific Camera, I also can't find a reference to an f/2.9 Xenar. (I do see a Xenar 2.9 that sold recently on ebay but it looks like an older non Linhof branded lens). (Attaching a picture of the listing as I know ebay links die real quick).


Do you guys know much about this f/2.9 variant? If these serial numbers are right, I assume my copy with serial 2602951 is from around 1951? It has a red triangle so I assume it is single coated with an incredible fragile coating.

Given that I think Linhof only released the Technica 23 in like 1952, this Technica I grabbed is probably a very early one (and boy did the grandpas back then sure use the roughest of clothes to clean their lenses cause this baby is scratch city....sadly). My complete guess is that Linhof offered this 105 f/2.9 at first but then quickly pivoted to the f/3.5 common variant. Maybe the wide open performance was shit tier or they did not want to cannibalize the Xenotar/Planar sales???? That's a complete guess. Anyone else know what's up with this Xenar?

The Planar/ Xenotar is a little later. At that point things like the Symmar were still made to a pre-war Dagor derived design, and the panoply of pre-war Xenars stretched to their design limits were still in the catalogue - I've seen a 180/3.5 from the same era. 52-54 was when things really rapidly shifted rapidly away from merely coating older extant designs to exploiting new glass and coatings to revise/ make new designs that had potentially far higher performance/ coverage relative to speed without the previous air/ glass interface losses - and the scale of production of the higher end SK, Zeiss etc lenses really seems to have ramped up too.

Your lens is likely very similar to the equivalent that Plaubel Makina made - it's pushing the envelope for what a Xenar could do with the glass of the time. SK's coatings aren't bad, but routine use of the end of a tie to clean lenses is not going to be good in the long run - I've got a 1951 Robot and the lens on it is in good shape.

There are lenses that you never see in the manufacturers catalogues, brochures, or adverts. Often these seem to have been made for specific camera manufacturers. The rare CZJ 165mm f5.3 Tessar, seems only to have been made for Kodak.

The SN indicates it was made around 1950/1, as you say. In the 1930s Schneider made an S-Xenar with 5 elements for Miniature cameras, pre-WWII that term was used for 35mm & 120 cameras.



Now the plot thickens, Schneider SN 377184 dates to approx 1930/1 and is found on the front cell of a 105mm f2.9 Xenar

It's likely this coated 105mm f2.9 Xenat was only made specifically for Linhof, whether its a Tessar type lens or an improvement on the S-Xenar there's no evidence. Schneider might change a design slightly to fit a shutter, for example is the 135mm f4.7 Xenar fits a Compur #0, while the 135mm f4.5 is in a Compur #1

That looks like a Compur #1 though and the small Linhot lens board, I'm holding one as I write. I had a look in the BJP Almanacs see if the lens is mentioned,and it's not. However, the Schneider advert in the 1953 BJPA (published November 1952) does not list the Xenotar, but the BJPA for 1954 does. That indicates the :F Xenotr was released sometime in 1953.

Rolleiflex caneras used the Xenotar from 1952, and the Planar from 1954, so that along with Schneiders adverts would seem to suggest the Linhof105mm f2.9 Xenar was the precursor to the 105mm f2.8 Xenotar.

Ian

The f2.9 Xenars were released in 1930, the same year as the f2.8 Biotessars. Meyer f1.5 Plasmats were introduced a year earlier.



Oddly, I'd bookmarked this page


Ian

Lachlan Young said:

The Planar/ Xenotar is a little later. At that point things like the Symmar were still made to a pre-war Dagor derived design, and the panoply of pre-war Xenars stretched to their design limits were still in the catalogue - I've seen a 180/3.5 from the same era. 52-54 was when things really rapidly shifted rapidly away from merely coating older extant designs to exploiting new glass and coatings to revise/ make new designs that had potentially far higher performance/ coverage relative to speed without the previous air/ glass interface losses - and the scale of production of the higher end SK, Zeiss etc lenses really seems to have ramped up too.

Your lens is likely very similar to the equivalent that Plaubel Makina made - it's pushing the envelope for what a Xenar could do with the glass of the time. SK's coatings aren't bad, but routine use of the end of a tie to clean lenses is not going to be good in the long run - I've got a 1951 Robot and the lens on it is in good shape.

Click to expand...

Oh neat, I did not realize Plaubel had a fast Xenar too. A 180 f/3.5 sounds like it is REALLY PUSHING it haha (especially if you mean the Tele-Xenar). Makes sense that the early to mid 50s once companies had started to recover post war were a great period of lens innovation. Darn those journalists and their ties! The robot cameras are so cute. Maybe someday I should look into them.

Ian Grant said:

There are lenses that you never see in the manufacturers catalogues, brochures, or adverts. Often these seem to have been made for specific camera manufacturers. The rare CZJ 165mm f5.3 Tessar, seems only to have been made for Kodak.

The SN indicates it was made around 1950/1, as you say. In the 1930s Schneider made an S-Xenar with 5 elements for Miniature cameras, pre-WWII that term was used for 35mm & 120 cameras.

View attachment 393148

Now the plot thickens, Schneider SN 377184 dates to approx 1930/1 and is found on the front cell of a 105mm f2.9 Xenar

It's likely this coated 105mm f2.9 Xenat was only made specifically for Linhof, whether its a Tessar type lens or an improvement on the S-Xenar there's no evidence. Schneider might change a design slightly to fit a shutter, for example is the 135mm f4.7 Xenar fits a Compur #0, while the 135mm f4.5 is in a Compur #1

That looks like a Compur #1 though and the small Linhot lens board, I'm holding one as I write. I had a look in the BJP Almanacs see if the lens is mentioned,and it's not. However, the Schneider advert in the 1953 BJPA (published November 1952) does not list the Xenotar, but the BJPA for 1954 does. That indicates the :F Xenotr was released sometime in 1953.

Rolleiflex caneras used the Xenotar from 1952, and the Planar from 1954, so that along with Schneiders adverts would seem to suggest the Linhof105mm f2.9 Xenar was the precursor to the 105mm f2.8 Xenotar.

Ian

Click to expand...

ooh neat, thanks for digging that up! I tried to clean the lens and I think I only spotted 4 elements (but it is possible they are joined in a way that'd make the 5th a hard spot), so I suspect it's as suggested a pre-war tessar coated and shoved into the linhof shutter (It is a Press-Compur 1 shutter which irc is the same as a Compur #1 size wise). Neat to have a precursor to the Xenotar! Someday I'd like to get a 6x7 Xenotar too though the one on my Rollei has thus far been excellent.

Ian Grant said:

The f2.9 Xenars were released in 1930, the same year as the f2.8 Biotessars. Meyer f1.5 Plasmats were introduced a year earlier.

View attachment 393154

Oddly, I'd bookmarked this page


Ian

Click to expand...

Hah thanks for bookmarking it! And ooo I hadn't heard of the Biotessar, that appears to be a pretty uncommon lens!

zerminator said:

Hah thanks for bookmarking it! And ooo I hadn't heard of the Biotessar, that appears to be a pretty uncommon lens!

Click to expand...

I think I'd bookmarked the page because of the Angulon, as I have an early pre-WWII 90mm.

Ian

Apologies for resurrecting this thread, but just in case someone comes digging, I figured I'd share some quick sample photos:


I believe these are on Kentmere 100. (Apologies for the development marks etc)

This from the Schneider 1935 catalog

Zerminator,

That is an interesting lens. If you ever decide to sell it, I would love to try it with my Cambo 23SF view camera.

Thanks!

Tony

aoresteen said:

Zerminator,

That is an interesting lens. If you ever decide to sell it, I would love to try it with my Cambo 23SF view camera.

Thanks!

Tony

Click to expand...

Oh so sorry for late reply. I do actually plan on selling this lens! But it would be as a full 3 lens kit with the Linhof 6x9 (it is a cardinal sing to separate a cammed lens from the body haha). Let me know if youd still be interested otherwise I will list it on the classifieds/eventually ebay soonish