Questions about measuring cups and storage containers?

Odot · Oct 19, 2016

I got all the chemical components down, all i need to know now is this stuff:

- From what i have understood, the fixer and developer is something i can NOT pour down the toilet but i wonder, how big should the container for these be?

- As far as measurement cups, how many and how big?

- For development, should i get extra bottles or mix it directly in the measurement? If yes, how many?

- Those stirring sticks, can i just use one and wash it off each time i stir something else? I am wondering because they are mostly being sold in two per pack.

Did i forget something?

Sorry for asking all of this rookie shit but i need to know yall

Thanks a lot you guys!

Luckless · Oct 19, 2016

Having multiple stirring sticks and multiple thermometers is handy because you then don't need to keep cleaning things, but can still readily stir tall graduated cylinders to more quickly even out the temperature and get a more reliable reading. (And the general reminder that we all know and love: Thermometers are not stir sticks.)

As for measurement cups, how many, and how big, this is a bit of 'personal preference' thing, and depends on what specific processes and volumes you're doing. Are you doing small volume one shots,

I like a range of graduated cylinders ranging from 5mL syringe types up to 1L ones. Parts to be mixed together all get measured out in their own cylinder of suitable volume (don't use a 1L cylinder to measure out 10mL, use a 15-25mL instead), and then mixed together in a cylinder of suitable size for the target total as a sanity check. For example, I would measure out 750mL of liquid A in a 1L cylinder, then 250mL of B in something like a 250mL or 500mL cylinder. Once I've confirmed the volumes of A and B I can mix them into A's 1L cylinder. (Unless it is something that really can't be allowed to slop or dribble, then things get mixed into a container with more headroom. Another exception would be if I need to pour A INTO B, in which case B gets transferred to a larger vessel after it was measured out.)

As for how large of a container to store spent chemistry for later disposal: Depends on what it is you are storing, and the volume you're dealing with.

Odot · Oct 19, 2016

Luckless said:
Having m

ultiple stirring sticks and multiple thermometers is handy because you then don't need to keep cleaning things, but can still readily stir tall graduated cylinders to more quickly even out the temperature and get a more reliable reading. (And the general reminder that we all know and love: Thermometers are not stir sticks.)

As for measurement cups, how many, and how big, this is a bit of 'personal preference' thing, and depends on what specific processes and volumes you're doing. Are you doing small volume one shots,

I like a range of graduated cylinders ranging from 5mL syringe types up to 1L ones. Parts to be mixed together all get measured out in their own cylinder of suitable volume (don't use a 1L cylinder to measure out 10mL, use a 15-25mL instead), and then mixed together in a cylinder of suitable size for the target total as a sanity check. For example, I would measure out 750mL of liquid A in a 1L cylinder, then 250mL of B in something like a 250mL or 500mL cylinder. Once I've confirmed the volumes of A and B I can mix them into A's 1L cylinder. (Unless it is something that really can't be allowed to slop or dribble, then things get mixed into a container with more headroom. Another exception would be if I need to pour A INTO B, in which case B gets transferred to a larger vessel after it was measured out.)

As for how large of a container to store spent chemistry for later disposal: Depends on what it is you are storing, and the volume you're dealing with.

I am not planning on developing more than two rolls at a time. As stupid as it may sound, i simply do not know what is suitable for starters. Ahh

EDIT: nevermind i got it all figured out now. Thanks again!

Svenedin · Oct 19, 2016

You should check your local regulations for disposal of used solutions of photographic chemicals. In the UK they can be disposed of down the drain for small quantities as used in amateur home processing (not for a business, see weblink).

If you only intend to develop 2 rolls of 35mm at a time then that is approximately 600ml (2 x 290ml in a Paterson tank =580 but 600 is easier to calculate and gives a bit extra).

So you will need a small measuring cylinder to measure out the liquid chemicals and a larger measuring cylinder to make up to the required volume. Paterson make a 150ml measuring cylinder and a 600ml measuring cylinder. These would get you started.

You can just wash your stirrer and it is not necessary to have loads of them.

If you are going to re-use your stop and fix then you need containers to store them in. You should try to use a container that seals well and does not have an excessive air space (what I mean is the bottle should be full or nearly full). Old fizzy drink bottles, wine bottles etc can be used. Make sure you remove old labels and never store them where a child could accidentally drink from them thinking they are a soft drink. I use green gin bottles with screw caps or green wine bottles with "Vacuvin" stoppers. Label your bottles with what is in them and when you mixed them up. Then mark the labels for each film processed with them so that you do not exceed the capacity. I think from your other thread that you are going to use your developer one-shot so there is no need to store this.

A funnel is useful and also a plastic measuring jug. You can probably get a plastic measuring jug and funnel in the supermarket.

For very small quantities (e.g. wetting agent) a syringe is useful (5ml).

Get shooting some film and have fun!

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=48

Odot · Oct 19, 2016

Svenedin said:
You should check your local regulations for disposal of used solutions of photographic chemicals. In the UK they can be disposed of down the drain for small quantities as used in amateur home processing (not for a business, see weblink).

If you only intend to develop 2 rolls of 35mm at a time then that is approximately 600ml (2 x 290ml in a Paterson tank =580 but 600 is easier to calculate and gives a bit extra).

So you will need a small measuring cylinder to measure out the liquid chemicals and a larger measuring cylinder to make up to the required volume. Paterson make a 150ml measuring cylinder and a 600ml measuring cylinder. These would get you started.

You can just wash your stirrer and it is not necessary to have loads of them.

If you are going to re-use your stop and fix then you need containers to store them in. You should try to use a container that seals well and does not have an excessive air space (what I mean is the bottle should be full or nearly full). Old fizzy drink bottles, wine bottles etc can be used. Make sure you remove old labels and never store them where a child could accidentally drink from them thinking they are a soft drink. I use green gin bottles with screw caps or green wine bottles with "Vacuvin" stoppers. Label your bottles with what is in them and when you mixed them up. Then mark the labels for each film processed with them so that you do not exceed the capacity. I think from your other thread that you are going to use your developer one-shot so there is no need to store this.

A funnel is useful and also a plastic measuring jug. You can probably get a plastic measuring jug and funnel in the supermarket.

For very small quantities (e.g. wetting agent) a syringe is useful (5ml).

Get shooting some film and have fun!

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=48

wow! thank you so much!

Svenedin · Oct 19, 2016

No problem. Have a look at this as well:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/webfiles/200629163442455.pdf

Regarding the Ilford weblink above, you don't need a special tool to take the caps off a 35mm film cartridge. A bottle opener will work but the proper tool is easier. Also the use of a squeegee is controversial and can scratch the film. It is best not to use one (IMHO).

mehguy · Oct 19, 2016

As for measuring cups, I would say one for each chemical. So 1 for the developer, 1 for the stop bath and 1 for the fixer. Also get a syringe, very useful especially for rodinal. Choosing which measuring graduate depends on which film format you're going to shoot and also how many rolls you're going to shoot at a time. But I find for 35mm and 1 or 2 rolls at a time, 1l litre measuring cups are good enough.

If you plan on using powdered chemicals or want to reuse your fixer, you will need extra bottles. Some people use glass bottles and the Datatainer bottles that are specifically made for darkroom chemicals. But some people also just use old 1 or 2l Soda bottles.

One thermometer is just fine. The temperature of the fixer and stopbath aren't as crucial as the developer.

Leigh B · Oct 19, 2016

Svenedin said:
Also the use of a squeegee is controversial and can scratch the film. It is best not to use one (IMHO).

I just run the film between my first and middle fingers (thoroughly washed, of course).
That is sufficient to clear off all significant water from the film surface without damaging the emulsion.

mehguy said:
As for measuring cups, I would say one for each chemical...

I have a full set of mixing gear for each chemical, including measuring graduates, stirring rods, storage bottles, etc.

Also, when mixing chemicals, always do so in the order they're used for processing, i.e. developer first, then stop, fixer, wash aid, etc. This provides some additional safety from cross-contamination.

- Leigh

Kawaiithulhu · Oct 19, 2016

Note that school laboratory supply companies often have cheap bundles with a small variety of measuring beakers etc... When I got back into wet work I got a lab set that had a range of cylinders from 10ml up to 1L for pretty cheap, and included a funnel. For small volumes I also got a box of dull-needle syringes from the local CVS pharmacy, much cheaper than real pipettes, and nearly as accurate.

MattKing · Oct 19, 2016

I re-use the same measuring graduates with different chemicals, but that requires careful practice and lots of rinsing. If you have the space, its a good idea to have separate graduates for separate chemicals.

Accuracy in your measuring graduates is important, but consistency is even more important. For larger quantities ( 1/2 litre, litre 2 litres) kitchen graduates may be just as useful as "darkroom" graduates, especially if you can check their volume markings against something like the Paterson graduates. I use a 45 ml Paterson graduate and a 2 litre Kodak graduate but everything else came in matched sets from the kitchen section of the Dollar store.

Odot · Oct 20, 2016

I just dropped 350 bucks on equipment so i should be more than straight THe most expensive pieces were the film loader and the 100 ft HP5 plus bulk roll. Cant wait for it to get here, haha

GarageBoy · Oct 20, 2016

How?! Film loaders are a dime a dozen on eBay...

Svenedin · Oct 20, 2016

Be careful with that 100 foot roll! Remember, you must load the film loader in absolute darkness or in a changing bag. You really don't want to ruin 100 feet of film.

MattKing · Oct 20, 2016

Svenedin said:
Remember, you must load the film loader in absolute darkness or in a changing bag.

Agree.

But for clarity, I think he meant "you must load the film loader in absolute darkness - either in a light-tight photographic changing bag or a room with no light (watch out for display lights, power LEDs, etc."

Svenedin · Oct 20, 2016

Yes that's what I meant. Didn't realise it was ambiguous.

Odot · Oct 20, 2016

Svenedin said:
Be careful with that 100 foot roll! Remember, you must load the film loader in absolute darkness or in a changing bag. You really don't want to ruin 100 feet of film.

I have also ordered a large Paterson changing bag so i hope that it will be good enough to load the film in light. My paranoia however, i will probably still try to load it in the dark with the changing bag

Garage boy: i saw a decent used film loader on eBay Germany for 25 bucks that seemed ok and then it was already gone. All of ebay Germany has three film loaders online and they look fragile like they are from the 14th century (kidding of course) so i got a new one for 45 bucks instead.

As far as the cost of all of this, i cant complain, i sold a bunch of junk on ebay and thats how i got the money together, other wise the missus aka the warden wouldnt have been too happy (you know how it goes, haha)

Svenedin · Oct 20, 2016

Yes your Paterson changing bag will be fine. Make sure you put your arms in far enough to get a light seal. There are 2 elastic cuffs, an outer and an inner. I use my changing bag in a room with dim light. Also do up the zip and fold over the velcro flap. Take off your watch if it has luminous hands! Take off your watch anyway as it can catch on the elastic cuff.

By the way, what camera do you have?

Odot · Oct 20, 2016

Svenedin said:
Yes your Paterson changing bag will be fine. Make sure you put your arms in far enough to get a light seal. There are 2 elastic cuffs, an outer and an inner. I use my changing bag in a room with dim light. Also do up the zip and fold over the velcro flap. Take off your watch if it has luminous hands! Take off your watch anyway as it can catch on the elastic cuff.

By the way, what camera do you have?

I have an AE1, Olympus XA2 and i got a Yashica T5 coming my way in the next few days. In addition i am eyeing a Zeiss Ikon ZM but i cannot find one single dealer in Germany or Ebay for that matter. Thanks for the advice on the watch, i defenitely would have missed out on this.

Svenedin · Oct 20, 2016

Sounds good. I don't know the ZM but I have some vintage Zeiss Ikon cameras. All folders, coupled rangefinders, from around 1935-1950. They are easily found, relatively inexpensive and the ones with Tessar lenses are very good. The smaller medium format 6x4.5 are easily carried in a pocket.

mgb74 · Oct 21, 2016

MattKing said:
I re-use the same measuring graduates with different chemicals, but that requires careful practice and lots of rinsing. If you have the space, its a good idea to have separate graduates for separate chemicals.
(snip)

I also rinse and reuse. I prefer glass because I feel that glass and stainless steel requires the least rinsing, followed by hard plastic, then soft plastic. That's just gut feel, not anything scientific.

mehguy · Oct 21, 2016

I just use 1 litre measuring cups I got from the dollar store. If I ever needed something like 295 ml of water for example, I would fill the container to 300ml and use my syringe and take 5ml of water out of the cup.

MattKing · Oct 21, 2016

mehguy said:
I just use 1 litre measuring cups I got from the dollar store. If I ever needed something like 295 ml of water for example, I would fill the container to 300ml and use my syringe and take 5ml of water out of the cup.

For something like that, if the 300 ml mark on the dollar store cups isn't accurate enough for what you need, than using the syringe won't add anything to that accuracy.

For what most of us do in our darkrooms, that 300 ml mark on the dollar store cup is most likely sufficiently accurate for high quality results.

Doremus Scudder · Oct 22, 2016

Odot,

In my Vienna "darkroom" where I develop 4x5 sheet film I have only rudimentary equipment: 1 1-liter measuring graduate, 1 thermometer, a couple of syringes for measuring out developer concentrate and my developing trays. I use a cheap digital oven timer for total time and a metronome for agitation intervals (I just count seconds between agitations). This works just fine for film developing.

For roll film it is necessary to have containers of the right size for each chemical. That said, you really only need one measuring graduate and then just some plastic cups or beakers all but one of your chemicals (one can stay in the graduate). Make sure you rinse the graduate well between mixing different chemicals and you will be just fine. Use your sink or a larger tub to mix a larger quantity of water at the right temperature to mix chemicals with and you won't have to worry about measuring the temperature of each chemical as you mix it. If you plan on storing your fixer in a bottle for reuse, then simply let it stand in the tempered water till it comes to processing temperature. In Europe, I can only get citric acid stop bath, so I assume that's what you have. Don't save this for reuse more than a day or so since it grows mold rather quickly. I use mine "one batch" since it's rather cheap. Use your developer one-shot too.

If you mix a developer to stock solution, you will need a storage bottle or bottles. I use a developer concentrate and measure directly from the bottle it comes in. You can too if you use Rodinal, HC-110 or similar developer concentrate (I use PMK mostly, which comes in two concentrated stock solutions).

As for disposal: the only thing that has any potential for harming the environment is the fixer. Developer and stop can go down the drain without a problem. I dump my small amounts of fixer down the drain in Europe as well. Ideally, you could take fixer to a photo-finisher for silver recovery. If you know of a photo-finishing business in Berlin, they will likely be happy to take your used fixer from you since they get to keep and sell the silver they recover from it. I'd talk to them first and save up several liters before taking it to them. If this doesn't work out for you, it is likely just fine to dump it down the drain. Check with a local camera club or your water authority for specifics to your area.

Best,

Doremus

M Carter · Oct 22, 2016

For me, the coolest (and free!!!) darkroom add-on has been a phone developing app. Set it for your dev time and for your agitation - gives a little "ding" every 60 seconds (or however you set it). My brain is easily bored, so I can't just stand there and watch a timer. When the film is sitting I'm cleaning up, getting the next chem to temp, and so on. I can glance at the big red timer wheel on the phone and if I miss it, I hear the "ding" and do my agitation. Been a fabulous little upgrade for me. (The one I use is IOS and called "develop", and it's a free app.

Doremus Scudder · Oct 23, 2016

The app looks cool. Too bad there's not a "dark screen" mode for us tray developers. I need total darkness when developing.

Doremus

Questions about measuring cups and storage containers?

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