Questions about mamiya 645 and 80mm f1.9

Qiuhong · Jun 26, 2023

Hi yall, I'm turning to you knowledgable people again to help answer some questions as I'm still learning about these 645 cameras.

The 80mm f1.9 N is known for it's haze issues, is the older C version more reliable? If I get a clean N version right now will it have haze eventually?

I have a 80mm F1.9 C that has a slightly sandy focus ring and some mold/fog growing, Is it easy to clean by yourself? how should i do it? (couldn't find resources online on opening this one up)

Is it normal that the hand crank on 645 pro bodies feel cheap and loose? each crank starts with normal resistance but at the end of each crank it feels like it slips without resistance and hit a hard stop, It's an unpleasant shooting expereince and it feels like a children's toy that's about to break. Does the M645 1000s body have a better hand crank? And are the 1000s reliable? (the mirror stop problem on pro body is already bugging me)

Thank you in advance!

MattKing · Jun 26, 2023

The cranking mechanism in the 645 Pro accurately reflects what it does. For part of the wind, it is both re-cocking the shutter/tensioning the aperture actuation and mirror movement mechanism and winding the film - there is more resistance during that part. Once the shutter is re-cocked and the aperture and mirror movement mechanisms are tensioned, what you feel is the very light resistance presented by the film advance - it is particularly light and smooth.
Try using the multi-exposure switch - you should feel that very light and smooth action for more of the wind.

MattKing · Jun 26, 2023

And as for the mirror stop on the Pro - they were designed to be replaced after heavy wear. If you get yours replaced with something similar to the original version, you should be able to enjoy thousands of exposures before they need to be replaced again, as part of normal maintenance.

greg zinselmeier · Jun 26, 2023

Lenses. I suggest a professional to clean your lens. Just pay the money and move on! It’s tough to spend like that, but the the alternative is more expensive. Buy a clean N, keep in dry cool environment, when not outside. Is the best advice I can give. There are no meaningful means of procuring a perfect lens for eternity!

Steven Lee · Jun 26, 2023

Qiuhong said:
Is it normal that the hand crank on 645 pro bodies feel cheap and loose? each crank starts with normal resistance but at the end of each crank it feels like it slips without resistance and hit a hard stop, It's an unpleasant shooting expereince and it feels like a children's toy that's about to break. Does the M645 1000s body have a better hand crank? And are the 1000s reliable? (the mirror stop problem on pro body is already bugging me)

Yes, the cheap feeling at the end of each crank is normal. BTW, electronic Bronicas feel similar. I suspect this has something to do with how the film advance mechanism is designed to be driven either by hand or by a winder motor.

I wouldn't worry about the mirror stop. Not all cameras were abused by wedding pros. But even if you happen to find a high-mileage camera, you can download a 3D model and order a replacement (or several!) from a high quality 3D printing lab. I bought a 3D printed replacement on eBay last year for $15 IIRC. It feels quite strong but I haven't had the need to use it yet.

Qiuhong · Jun 27, 2023

Steven Lee said:
Yes, the cheap feeling at the end of each crank is normal. BTW, electronic Bronicas feel similar. I suspect this has something to do with how the film advance mechanism is designed to be driven either by hand or by a winder motor.

I wouldn't worry about the mirror stop. Not all cameras were abused by wedding pros. But even if you happen to find a high-mileage camera, you can download a 3D model and order a replacement (or several!) from a high quality 3D printing lab. I bought a 3D printed replacement on eBay last year for $15 IIRC. It feels quite strong but I haven't had the need to use it yet.

thanks for confirming that

Steven Lee · Jun 27, 2023

@Qiuhong Speaking about the 80mm f/1.9 lens. As far as I can tell, most people who admire this lens are eager to use it for portraits due to that creamy wide aperture. But I would argue that the 110mm f/2.8 N is a better portrait lens. Its DOF is similarly shallow, but the focal length creates more pleasing/compressed rendering of faces and this lens is not prone to haze. It also uses the 58mm filter size just like the majority of lenses on this platform.

Qiuhong · Jun 27, 2023

Steven Lee said:
@Qiuhong Speaking about the 80mm f/1.9 lens. As far as I can tell, most people who admire this lens are eager to use it for portraits due to that creamy wide aperture. But I would argue that the 110mm f/2.8 N is a better portrait lens. Its DOF is similarly shallow, but the focal length creates more pleasing/compressed rendering of faces and this lens is not prone to haze. It also uses the 58mm filter size just like the majority of lenses on this platform.

Hi, , I didn't realize, it sounds very tempting! though it might not be as versatile and the ebay prices are pretty high rn

Jeremy Mudd · Jun 29, 2023

Qiuhong said:
Hi yall, I'm turning to you knowledgable people again to help answer some questions as I'm still learning about these 645 cameras.

The 80mm f1.9 N is known for it's haze issues, is the older C version more reliable? If I get a clean N version right now will it have haze eventually?

I have a 80mm F1.9 C that has a slightly sandy focus ring and some mold/fog growing, Is it easy to clean by yourself? how should i do it? (couldn't find resources online on opening this one up)

Is it normal that the hand crank on 645 pro bodies feel cheap and loose? each crank starts with normal resistance but at the end of each crank it feels like it slips without resistance and hit a hard stop, It's an unpleasant shooting expereince and it feels like a children's toy that's about to break. Does the M645 1000s body have a better hand crank? And are the 1000s reliable? (the mirror stop problem on pro body is already bugging me)

Thank you in advance!

The "mirror stop problem" is greatly exaggerated. I've owned several 645 Pro/ProTL bodies and have not had a single stop failure over the years. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, its just one of those things shat shouldn't cause someone to consider the camera to be a "bad design" and stay away from it.

Cue some curmudgeon that gets upset at my comment and claims that the Pro/ProTL bodies are plastic pieces of crap and the 1000s was a way better design in 3.......2........1......

I also own 2 1000s bodies, 1 of which is broken. The advance mechanism for the film has issues and there are missing/overlapped frames. The other 1 is perfect, and it sits on the shelf when I want to shoot 645 and grab a Pro/ProTL body instead. I like the ergonomics, weight, and modularity of the newer body better than the old. One thing I do like about the 1000s is the two different shutter buttons. Sometimes the top one is nice to have, and the newer bodies don't have that.

Jeremy

Roger Cole · Jun 29, 2023

I have a 645 Pro and wasn't aware of a mirror stop issue. If it DOES happen, what are the symptoms? How difficult is it to replace, since it seems getting a part is easy?

I've kind of wanted an 80 f/1.9 but the idea was more for low light than portraits. I'd agree that 110 is a better FL for portraits and f/2.8 at 110 should give similarly shallow depth of field.

I got mine with the winder and I don't think I've actually ever wound the film manually. I do have the crank.

Jeremy Mudd · Jun 29, 2023

Roger Cole said:
I have a 645 Pro and wasn't aware of a mirror stop issue. If it DOES happen, what are the symptoms? How difficult is it to replace, since it seems getting a part is easy?

I've kind of wanted an 80 f/1.9 but the idea was more for low light than portraits. I'd agree that 110 is a better FL for portraits and f/2.8 at 110 should give similarly shallow depth of field.

I got mine with the winder and I don't think I've actually ever wound the film manually. I do have the crank.

The focus become off because the mirror sits a little too far down and it throws off the angle.

Not having repaired one myself, there are plenty of vids out there on it. It doesn't look any worse than many of the camera repairs I've done in the past.

Jeremy

Randy Stewart · Jul 4, 2023

The mirror stop problem mentioned only affects two models as far as I know, being the 1000S and one other. It results from a small, plastic part just inside the lens mount which absorbs the total shock of the mirror return. Moreover, it is a lever with a hole in the center on which it pivots, making it even weaker. The problem starts when the part begins to wear at the pivot hole, letting the mirror to come to rest at a slightly different location in reference to the focusing screen. Eventually, the part breaks at the pivot point, and that is the end of the ball game unless you can make or find a part which has not been sold for 20 years. It's an insane design, which Mamiya acknowledged by installing an adjustment screw to allow removal of the slack from such wear. It's accessed though a small hole in the lens mount at about 5:00 as you look at the front of the camera. Occasionally, you can find someone on-line selling a home-made replacement for this part for a few bucks. IMO, this is the same type of careless design which characterizes a lot of Mamiya models, such as the Mamiya 7, with its film advance system failing over a too weak, five cent spring, rendering the whole camera dead as a door nail.

Roger Cole · Jul 5, 2023

Thanks for the information. My 645Pro developed a shutter problem some years back and was repaired by Mark Hama, and I'm pretty sure he checked out the camera. As it turned out, I dropped away from photography shortly after that. I'd bet I've not run two rolls through it since then. It should be good for now, and I think 3D printed versions of that part are now readily available.

Jeremy Mudd · Jul 5, 2023

Randy Stewart said:
The mirror stop problem mentioned only affects two models as far as I know, being the 1000S and one other.

That is incorrect.

The 1000S is the older design that essentially just has a peg sticking out that acts as the mirror stop. This is the same for the first M645 model, the M645 1000S, and the M645J.

The design of the mirror stop changed with the introduction of the Super and subsequent Pro/ProTL models.

Jeremy

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