Questions about lighting for wet plate photo (studio portrait)

D_Quinn · Dec 9, 2021

Hi. I am new to wet plate photography. I am hoping to get some advice about how to make studio portraits using artificial light.
I’ve understood that collodion is sensitive to blue/green wavelengths but not so much to yellow/red wavelengths, and some say that strobes and LED lights are not effective for wet plate photography.

Here are my questions:
1)I have Profoto Acute2 2400. Would this be too weak?
2)Another light I have is Yongnuo YN-900 LED Video Light(900 LEDs, 5500K). If I use a blue filter over the light would that help?

Any tips or technical advice is greatly appreciated!

AgX · Dec 9, 2021

Welcome to Apug!

Placing a blue filter on a light source will make the output relatively more blue, but not absolutely more blue. And the latter is what matters in your case.

You lack basic knowledge and understanding of spectral sensitivity of materials and spectral output of light sources. Try to understand this first.

D_Quinn · Dec 9, 2021

Hi AgX
Thanks for your answer. I assume placing a blue gel on the light won't contribute to the formation of images. I'll try to read and learn more about it.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 9, 2021

HERE is a little discussion on the subject. I'm sure there is a lot more of these. I'm far away from wet plate, hopefully one day, so cannot help in any other way.

fgorga · Dec 9, 2021

To expand upon AgX's response... adding a blue filter to a light source removes the warmer wavelengths making the light appear bluer. It does not, however, make the existing blue light more intense. Thus a blue filter will not significantly change the exposure to blue sensitive materials.

I have no experience with wet plate photography, so take the following recommendation with that in mind. I would expect that an LED source that you can adjust the color temperature would be useful here. I would look at the various models and choose the model that allows for the coolest light possible.

Donald Qualls · Dec 9, 2021

fgorga said:
I would expect that an LED source that you can adjust the color temperature would be useful here. I would look at the various models and choose the model that allows for the coolest light possible.

Once again, I doubt that dialing in a higher color temperature will increase the blue, either -- it's just decreasing the red, moving the peak, but those LEDs are most likely running at maximum power. As long as you make sure the blue channel of your light is turned all the way up, there's nothing more to gain by turning down the red.

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 9, 2021

As someone who has used strobes with Wet Plate, 2400 W/S should be JUST enough, depending on how big a plate you're trying to work with, and how fast your lens is. TBH, you are probably better off working with continuous lights (fluorescents seem best as they have (relatively) high UV output) because what they lack in raw power they make up for with being able to extend your exposure time. That way if you need f/8 to get more than just your sitter's eyelashes in focus, you can stop it down and use a multi-second exposure. It also avoids the risk of blowing circuit breakers in your shooting space because you've hooked up too many high-power strobe packs to the same circuit.

AgX · Dec 9, 2021

And to expand on the flash topic: there is a difference between using a softbox or using a standard reflector placed at least light-spilling position.
Also using two flash bursts in succession may be considered.

I myself got a natural-light, free-standing, half-body 6x9 daguerreotype portrait of mine, that is sharp.

Or with other words: it depends.

Factors as:
sensitivity of the plate, spectral characteristic of the light source, its output, its lightfomer, movement of subject, aperture of lens, size and viewing distance of the photograph
all have their part in answering the OP question.

removedacct1 · Dec 9, 2021

D_Quinn said:
Hi. I am new to wet plate photography. I am hoping to get some advice about how to make studio portraits using artificial light.
I’ve understood that collodion is sensitive to blue/green wavelengths but not so much to yellow/red wavelengths, and some say that strobes and LED lights are not effective for wet plate photography.

Here are my questions:
1)I have Profoto Acute2 2400. Would this be too weak?
2)Another light I have is Yongnuo YN-900 LED Video Light(900 LEDs, 5500K). If I use a blue filter over the light would that help?

Any tips or technical advice is greatly appreciated!

2400WS is barely going to accomplish the job. If you plan to modify the light source (IE: use a softbox or similar to make the light more flattering) then you will find it even more difficult. And you should plan to modify the light quality if you want to make flattering portraits. I see so many strobe-lit portraits done on collodion that used unmodified light (or marginally modified) and they are almost always very unflattering. The more successful strobe/collodion portraitists I've watched use one or two 4800WS heads in a light modifier, plus a fill light. (Or a very good reflector)

And as others have pointed out, blue filters won't help you at all. The remove some wavelengths, but they don't amplify anything.

If you are limited to a single 2400WS strobe, then you need to work to get the best speed out of your collodion. There are a couple of things you can do to achieve this: use a fast collodion. The UVP-X formula Brian Cuyler makes (at UV Photographics) is about one stop faster than most other formulas. In your scenario, one stop could make the difference between failure and success. Secondly, learn the limits of your materials: test and test some more to determine exactly how far you can push your development times without fogging the blacks. You may want to experiment with how much restrainer (Acid) you can add to the developer to extend development times. Just watch out that you don't create an unflattering tonality in doing so (ugly contrast) The longer you can leave developer on the plate, the brighter the image becomes. There is a very real limit to how far you can take it, of course. Adding one or two grams of Potassium nitrate (Saltpeter) to your developer can brighten the higher values a bit also.

I believe Wilfried Thomas uses strobes for his portraits, and this is how to do it well: https://wilfriedthomascollodion.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/morgane-ambrotype.jpg Take a look at Giles Clement's portfolio too - he does a very good job with strobes and tintype.

I hate to single out any particular practitioner, but here is an example of what I regard as a very unflattering wet plate portrait, made with unmodified strobe: https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2013/08/Lumiere_Tintype_Collodion_Ambrotype_1423.jpg

AgX · Dec 9, 2021

D_Quinn said:
I have Profoto Acute2 2400. Would this be too weak?

I wonder how many of us have a single flash with such an output at all. I would have to use all my studio flashes in parallel to achieve such...

removedacct1 · Dec 9, 2021

AgX said:
I wonder how many of us have a single flash with such an output at all. I would have to use all my studio flashes in parallel to achieve such...

I know several wet plate portraitists who have at least two Speedotron 4800s, which they had to buy in order to effectively make tintype portraits in studio.

D_Quinn · Dec 9, 2021

Oh, This is great. Many answers! Many many thanks, everyone!
I'll now try to read everything and also check the recommended links.
It sounds like I need much more light than I was expecting... Also now I understand why adding a blue filter won't contribute to collodion formation.

MattKing · Dec 9, 2021

D_Quinn said:
Also now I understand why adding a blue filter won't contribute to collodion formation.

A blue viewing filter might help you guage (visualize) the result ahead of time.

lantau · Dec 9, 2021

I bought a small lot of black light CFL on the bay a while ago. Thought it might be useful for cyanotype in the winter. Haven't tried anything yet. Could these be of any use here? Myself I won't get into wet plate, but sooner or later I'll try JLane dry plates. The non ortho type will be similar to the OPs requirements?

D_Quinn · Dec 10, 2021

@paulbarden
Thanks for the informative advice. I really see what you are talking about when I saw two photographers' portfolios. Their work has more depth, three-dimensionality, and I totally love the quality!

removedacct1 · Dec 10, 2021

D_Quinn said:
@paulbarden
Thanks for the informative advice. I really see what you are talking about when I saw two photographers' portfolios. Their work has more depth, three-dimensionality, and I totally love the quality!

Happy to be of help. Once you get going, feel free to ask if you need technical advice.

Wet Plate portraiture is a real challenge to do well. Many, many people do it, but in my opinion, only a small percentage do it really well. I would say that the majority of portraitists that do a really good job are using natural light, not strobes, and that is because its difficult to get enough light to effectively make a plate and that its enough light that you can still employ light modifiers to make that light flattering to the sitter. You're facing a real technical challenge if you opt for strobes as your lighting. But hey, some people have done it and it CAN be done well if you work at it.
I don't typically do portraiture in wet plate, but the best pieces I have made were all done in natural light: open shade with the subject facing north, towards open sky (cloudy or clear sky - either is good). Yes, exposures can be long (in this case, the exposure was 7 seconds) but bracing the subject against something is the answer (this is how it was done traditionally):
"https://live.staticflickr.com/4597/39367576372_70ba5de374_h.jpg"

D_Quinn · Dec 10, 2021

Thanks, Paul
The portrait looks truly wonderful. It has great tonality yet contrasts that images created by modern cameras don't have. My ultimate goal is portraiture but I guess I would be better off to start working on still-life to really understand the process. I've just got my first chemicals here in Tokyo.

koraks · Dec 18, 2021

I've made quite a few OK-ish wet plate portraits with just 2 generic 400Ws strobe heads really, really close to the model. Shoot wide open and hope for the best. It's very limiting in terms of composition, but it works in a pinch. Give it a try with your 2400Ws kit; while perhaps not ideal, it'll give an image. Forget about the LEDs, they won't do much.

D_Quinn said:
I’ve understood that collodion is sensitive to blue/green wavelengths

Collodion is virtually only UV-sensitive, there's a very small fraction of sensitivity in the visible blue part of the spectrum and virtually none in green, yellow and red. Ergo, you want a light source that's rich in UV. Preferably diffuse, for (most) portraits. Daylight in open shade or under light clouds is ideal.

D_Quinn · Dec 18, 2021

Hi Koraks, Thanks for the useful information. I'll definitely try with my 2400 kit in the beginning.
Having said that, I see a lot of portraits of close-ups on the net, but eventually, I would like to photograph sitters in their own living spaces surrounded by their own stuff. In other words, I want to light up the room to a degree as well as a person sitting on a chair or something.
In this case, I assume it wouldn't really solve the issue even if I buy more powerful strobes (unless I spend hundreds of dollars worth of strobes). How would you deal with this scenario? Would it be more realistic to do this with window light with super long exposure although I assume the sitters would look out of focus or blurry a bit?

Many thanks for your knowledge sharing!

koraks · Dec 18, 2021

For the kind of contextual portraits you speak of, I'd shell out the big bucks for lots of strobe power and accept that you'll still have limited depth of field to play with.
Natural light might work IF the room and lighting conditions are suitable AND your sitter can sit absolutely still for a long time. In other words, not something you'd want to place any bets on. Might work well in 5% of the cases...

Note that there's only so much flash power you can throw onto a model before they object (with good reason). Even 2400Ws up close is not necessarily nice for your sitter, let alone higher power levels.

My main suggestion would be to start easy; do still lifes and limited DoF portraits, get the basic technique of wet plate down, and then scale up to where you want to go.

gone · Dec 18, 2021

D_Quinn said:
Oh, This is great. Many answers!

Yes, that's the good news. The other news is that the answers will all be different. Me, I would use natural light too, and shy away from studio portraits unless there's no other choice. It's easier for me if I see what the lens sees at the time of exposure, and you can't do that w/ flash photography.

If you look around you can usually find some good natural light for this no matter where you live. "Seeing" the light is a skill that requires practice because it means just that, not looking...... but seeing. It's a lot easier said than done.

D_Quinn · Dec 19, 2021

Thanks for your great replies. I really appreciate it.
Yes. I'll definitely follow your suggestions, start shooting something simple, relatively easy subjects, indoor and outdoor!

Eric Hiss · Jun 23, 2022

Hi, Just reading this thread after spending the day doing wet plates with my Profoto strobes. One thing I learned is that the Pro heads have UV-filtered glass covers over the light elements. If you remove them from your heads and shoot with the bare strobe element or even with modifiers like soft boxes you will get much more of the needed spectrum for wet plate chemistry - possibly as much as 4 more stops. I have 4800 w/s and 2400 w/s D4 packs and with the UV filters on the plates shot at f/6 were several stops underexposed. We removed the cover glass and suddenly could expose at f/6 and probably could have done f/8. So check your strobes to see if they have UV filtering if you are using strobes. I had one Actute head which did not have the UV glass, so not all Profoto heads do, but probably most of the Pro heads do.

AgX · Jun 24, 2022

The cover glass is there for a reason! To protect from an exploding halogen bulb.
(A apt load flash tube should not explode, out of its own, at all.)

The cover glass also protects the hot glass hulls inside to some extent from the outside world (e.g. water splashes) which also may lead to shattering/explosion.

Eric Hiss · Jun 24, 2022

AgX said:
The cover glass is there for a reason! To protect from an exploding halogen bulb.
(A apt load flash tube should not explode, out of its own, at all.)

The cover glass also protects the hot glass hulls inside to some extent from the outside world (e.g. water splashes) which also may lead to shattering/explosion.

Geeze that's a little bit over the top. In twenty years of using Profoto and 13 years of working with other pro photographers, I've never once seen or even heard of a flash tube exploding. Has anyone here using strobes ever seen a flash tube or modeling light explode? I mean if you throw cold water at it or knock the thing over that's different, but just explode all on its own? The great thing about tin type / wet plate is that you just need one pop every 10 minutes or so at most. And Halogen bulbs the same - never seen one blow. You can buy non UV coated covers for the profoto heads if you want a cover. I suspect the real reason why Profoto puts covers over the flash tubes is mostly to make a slightly softer and even light. I would not advise using your flash heads naked long-term, just saying it really made a difference for wet plate work.

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