Questions about basic "DSLR" scanning rig

[Bob Bibab]

Hi. I am trying to put together a good, but affordable DSLR scanning rig. I already have a tripod and can borrow my partner's digital camera. From what I have read, other than that, I need a light source and something to hold the negatives flat.

I am aware of the negative holder / light box in one solution from Taiwan, but that seems a little expensive and, in any case, the version that does 35mm through to 4x5 won't be available till end of July. I have seen the negative holder by Kaiser, which is very expensive and does not do 4x5.

It seems to me that the best bang for buck can be had from a Kaiser Slimlite lightbox and Digitaliza scanning masks.

So I have a few questions, I would be grateful if someone could answer:
1- Is there any reason why you think the above combination is not suitable or if something better should be used?
2- What should I do with 4x5 negatives? The Digitaliza only seems to come in 35mm and 6x6.
3- What size lightbox should I get? Is the 22x16 cm version large enough? Or would I be more comfortable if I get something larger (e.g. because the negative mask would fit better or be more stable)?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[mshchem]

Daylight. North sky light. You will need a window.

Otherwise a white card to reflect light from a couple daylight LEDs

A daylight LED panel, but those cost money

A old contact printer?

 

[MattKing]

A good macro/micro lens.

 

[Bob Bibab]

Thanks for replies. But does anyone have an answer to the three specific questions I set out?

 

[Aviv]

When it comes to holding your 35mm film, an affordable option might be to print or order a print of a Kamerakraft film carrier: https://www.kamerakraft.com/film-scanning-carrier

I purchased the pro version through the kamerakraft website. This version allows me to scan an entire roll of 35mm film in less than 5 minutes. The issue with the Digitiliza is you will have to swap through your negatives strip by strip. If you have an uncut roll, the kamerakraft carrier works wonders and speeds up your workflow. You can also easily add components to it (gluing on anti-static brushes for example) to improve your scan quality and reduce post-processing removal of dust.

Since you are using a tripod, I might also suggest using a macro focusing rail so that you can set your macro lens to your desired magnification and then focus on the grain using the focusing rail. If your camera has a rotatable screen, this will make your life a lot easier! I used this version of the rail and it has worked surprisingly well for me: https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Focus...ywords=macro+focus+rail&qid=1591364103&sr=8-2 . I use this rail with a cheap ball head, t-slotted extrusion, 55mm f3.5 Micro-Nikkor Lens, extension tube, a bulls-eye bubble level, and MDF board as a makeshift copy stand. I get good-enough-for-me results shooting 35mm and stitching shots of 120. I'd be happy to share photos of my setup later if that would help.

 

[Bormental]

1- Is there any reason why you think the above combination is not suitable or if something better should be used?

This is exactly my setup and it works fine. I am hoping to upgrade to this in the future, but that's just to save a bit of time, I'm sure the output will be the same. This is only true for 120 film. Digitaliza is AWFUL for 35mm, get a negative holder with vertical bars pressing the film down between frames, like the one from Pacific Image (only $12).

2- What should I do with 4x5 negatives? The Digitaliza only seems to come in 35mm and 6x6.

You can buy a suitable-sized anti-Newton glass to press it directly against the light tablet. I have not tried it, but don't see why wouldn't that work.

 

[BAC1967]

I converted an old enlarger that uses glassless negative holders. I can scan 35mm, 127 and 120 film with it. For 4X5 I have a separate negative holder that I can position the camera over. For a light source I use an iPad with a sheet of translucent white plastic to scatter the pixels. The nice thing about the enlarger I use is the bellows, without that it’s easy to get reflections from the lens onto the negative. When I scan 4X5 I mask off all light except the negative and scan in a dark room.

 

[Bob Bibab]

Ok. Wow. That is an impressive and intimidating setup. I don't think I can put something like that together tbh. Need something fairly simple and idiot proof tbh. I still haven't figure out what I need in order to connect my tripod or a copy stand to my camera.



It is disappointing to hear about the digitaliza. I can't find anyone in the UK selling the Pacific Image or the KameraKraft unfortunately.

Thanks for the link to the rail. Does that just screw on to the tripod head? Or should I use my ball head and quick release some how? Do I need to mount the negative vertically to use that?

And with the Kaiser, what is a good size for lightbox? Should I go with the 22x16 or get something larger?

 

[grat]

Everyone seems to like pointing their camera down, or up, at the light source and carrier, but I would think horizontal is less likely to cause headaches.

There are cheap camera sliders out there that you can use to support the camera, then set up something to hold the lightbox / carrier vertical, and if you're looking for 4x5 masks, there's always a v700 4x5 scanner tray (available without the scanner). Or, if you know someone with a 3D printer, there are a couple designs out there.

Throw a box over the whole thing to cut out external light, and you should be good to go.

Mind you-- this is theoretical. I haven't set this up and tried it myself yet.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Hi. I am trying to put together a good, but affordable DSLR scanning rig. I already have a tripod and can borrow my partner's digital camera. From what I have read, other than that, I need a light source and something to hold the negatives flat.

I am aware of the negative holder / light box in one solution from Taiwan, but that seems a little expensive and, in any case, the version that does 35mm through to 4x5 won't be available till end of July. I have seen the negative holder by Kaiser, which is very expensive and does not do 4x5.

It seems to me that the best bang for buck can be had from a Kaiser Slimlite lightbox and Digitaliza scanning masks.

So I have a few questions, I would be grateful if someone could answer:
1- Is there any reason why you think the above combination is not suitable or if something better should be used?
2- What should I do with 4x5 negatives? The Digitaliza only seems to come in 35mm and 6x6.
3- What size lightbox should I get? Is the 22x16 cm version large enough? Or would I be more comfortable if I get something larger (e.g. because the negative mask would fit better or be more stable)?

Thanks in advance for your help.

1 - for a starter rig, this will work. If you're planning to do a lot of film, this is less ideal. Better solutions involve a copy stand with an adapted camera and full spectrum light sources.
2 - for 4x5 find an old 4x5 negative holder for an enlarger on eBay. Works great.
3 - 8x10 inch is fine if you plan to digitize 4x5 as you'll want the film at least an inch or so away from the light source so the light source is out of focus.

 

[Bob Bibab]

Isn't the Kaiser full spectrum? Or close to? It has CRI of 95. Is that not good enough?

 

[BAC1967]

Ok. Wow. That is an impressive and intimidating setup. I don't think I can put something like that together tbh. Need something fairly simple and idiot proof tbh. I still haven't figure out what I need in order to connect my tripod or a copy stand to my camera.

This is a much simpler setup I use when I travel, it uses a Pentax copy stand. Need to use it in the dark, I cut out some cardboard masks to prevent reflections. I’m using a zoom lens with a macro lens on front since the legs of the copy stand don’t allow me to get close enough. Since the stand takes one lens size I cut a hole in a plastic lens cap that allows my lens to mount to it. I glued the lens cap to the copy stand. That’s an Olympus Air camera mounted to the lens, that allows me to put the lens and camera in a long lens tube for travel. Not the best camera though.

 

[MattKing]

Isn't the Kaiser full spectrum? Or close to? It has CRI of 95. Is that not good enough?

High CRI and full spectrum are not the same. You can have a discontinuous source that achieves a high CRI. It will make things look good to the eye, while causing film or digital sensors to respond inconsistently.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Isn't the Kaiser full spectrum? Or close to? It has CRI of 95. Is that not good enough?

95 CRI is fine

 

[Adrian Bacon]

High CRI and full spectrum are not the same. You can have a discontinuous source that achieves a high CRI. It will make things look good to the eye, while causing film or digital sensors to respond inconsistently.

this is true, but a higher CRI will look better than a lower CRI light source.

 

[Aviv]

Ok. Wow. That is an impressive and intimidating setup. I don't think I can put something like that together tbh. Need something fairly simple and idiot proof tbh. I still haven't figure out what I need in order to connect my tripod or a copy stand to my camera.



It is disappointing to hear about the digitaliza. I can't find anyone in the UK selling the Pacific Image or the KameraKraft unfortunately.

Thanks for the link to the rail. Does that just screw on to the tripod head? Or should I use my ball head and quick release some how? Do I need to mount the negative vertically to use that?

And with the Kaiser, what is a good size for lightbox? Should I go with the 22x16 or get something larger?

That is unfortunate regarding the Kamerakraft. See if you know anyone with a 3D printer, they could print it for you! Purchasing from Kamerakraft's site just connects you to the owner of a 3D printer, who in turn prints the parts for you. I guess I am not sure if this service works outside of the US.

The rail does just screw to the tripod head. For stability, I removed the lateral rail, but you do not need to necessarily. For my setup, I place my negative holder onto a video light, which is placed on the copy stand. Depending on how you choose to mount your negative, you may not need a vertical setup.

I should note that there are endless ways to mount the rail and ball head to a vertical column. I used t-slotted framing, and a machined plate to securely mount everything. But I have seen people use pipe clamps with threaded pipe, or reuse old enlargers to achieve the same design. Whatever gets the job done.

 

[Bob Bibab]

Thanks everyone. This is all very helpful. I think I really need to think about all the gear choice and mounting setups from scratch as it seems like I am lacking quite a bit of knowledge here.

 

[Bob Bibab]

That is unfortunate regarding the Kamerakraft. See if you know anyone with a 3D printer, they could print it for you! Purchasing from Kamerakraft's site just connects you to the owner of a 3D printer, who in turn prints the parts for you. I guess I am not sure if this service works outside of the US.

The rail does just screw to the tripod head. For stability, I removed the lateral rail, but you do not need to necessarily. For my setup, I place my negative holder onto a video light, which is placed on the copy stand. Depending on how you choose to mount your negative, you may not need a vertical setup.

I should note that there are endless ways to mount the rail and ball head to a vertical column. I used t-slotted framing, and a machined plate to securely mount everything. But I have seen people use pipe clamps with threaded pipe, or reuse old enlargers to achieve the same design. Whatever gets the job done.
View attachment 247861

Mind blown. Never knew about this whole 3d printing business. Looks like despite being in USD, they send the data to local printers who will deliver it to me. What else can one get 3d printed like this?!

There also seems to be two different options, the free version and the pro version. Do you have any thoughts on the two? And is it possible to use these holders with cut film?

 

[Aviv]

Mind blown. Never knew about this whole 3d printing business. Looks like despite being in USD, they send the data to local printers who will deliver it to me. What else can one get 3d printed like this?!

There also seems to be two different options, the free version and the pro version. Do you have any thoughts on the two? And is it possible to use these holders with cut film?

Theoretically, you can get anything you'd like printed through the service! You probably just need the STL file of whatever part you'd like.

Since I don't have access to my own printer and would be paying for the parts anyways, I got the pro version. So far, it has been serving me quite well. When I got the parts, I spent some time sanding down loose threads of plastic. Depending on how it is printed (material, printer, etc.) you may have to spend more or less time cleaning up the parts, but it isn't too hard provided you have a piece of sand paper or a file. The biggest part I had an issue with was the roller that moves the film, it just had a lot of excess plastic on the end of it that I had to sand down to ensure it fit properly. No fault to the part design; it was due to the way it was printed by the printer.

When using the pro carrier, I find I have to guide the film through for the first 10 frames or so before it curls onto the end spool on its own. After that I can scan the rest of the roll quickly without needing to guide it in. So far, I have not seen any scratches on the film. I'm sure you could tape part of the film with gaff tape to the end spool if you wanted to. With regards to using it for cut film, I use it for cut film as well without issue.

 

[Robert Ley]

I have been using Negative Lab Pro to convert color negatives. They have a great web site https://www.negativelabpro.com/
The web site will answer many of your questions on technique and they have a good forum with some knowledgeable people.
There are also some good Youtube videos on this particular technique.

 

[Bob Bibab]

Is there something similar for 6x6 and or 4x5?

 

[Aviv]

Negative Supply sells a professional, CNC-machined version of the Kamerakraft carrier in 35mm and 120. However, you will be paying TONS of money. When it comes to 120, it also depends on how you want to scan the negatives. Do you want to take a single image of the negative? Do you need to scan the whole roll?

I use negative carriers to hold my 120 negatives. This is a great budget option. Depending on the size of the negative (i.e. 6x4.5 vs 6x7) I take several photos of the negative at 1:1 and then use Photostitch in Photoshop to get a high resolution file. It isn't perfect - Photomerge sometimes distorts the outer edges of the negative for some reason. Photomerge can also take some time depending on your computer. I tend to get good enough results for my uses though. And the timing isn't an issue if you are only scanning a couple negatives per roll. Besides - if I needed a super good quality scan for something like making a print, I'd probably just send it out to a lab to ensure there are no issues on my part.

Since you are in the UK, this holder might be of interest to you: http://www.clifforth.co.uk/
I am considering purchasing the 120 version of this holder in the near future. Looks to be robust and of good quality.

 

[Bob Bibab]

Thanks for that. I hadn't realised the negative supply carrier was based on the kamerakraft one. They are too expensive for me. I will look more closely at the clifforth.

Regarding the kamerakraft, the printers seems to give you an option of different material for it to be built out of. Is there one you would recommend?

 

[Aviv]

I did PLA. It has worked for me so far.

 

[tnp651]

I would go with a set of negative carriers from an old enlarger, including 4x5. Put a piece of white Plexiglas a few inches behind it and light it with flash to stop any vibration. It should be a little larger than the film size. The only fiddly part is keeping the film parallel to the camera. If you're stitching several partial views, a macro focusing rail will make it easier. Overlap about 30%. Use a macro lens with extension tubes, or, if you don't want to spend the money, a manual lens with a reversing mount.