Questioned by the FBI and Local Police

Andy K

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Being questioned by police in public indicates an assumption of guilt. Personally I think being considered a criminal, when I have done nothing illegal, is an infringement of my rights.
To follow your way of thinking to its conclusion, eventually everyone will be thrown in jail just in case a few might commit a crime.

You carry on living in fear and surrendering to the terrorists. I'll carry on doing whatever I please without any fear and not giving in to the fear-mongers (both terrorist and government).

23mjm said:
never said that Reuters or for that fact Harvard is unreliable---please read my posts and do not put words in my mouth---I believe both are reliable--but one article/study doesn't make it a scientific fact.
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I did read what you wrote, and you dismissed the report 'because it was on the net'. It seems it was you who failed to read properly as you did not see it was a Reuters report until I mentioned it.
 
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bdial

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True, there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks here commenting on both sides, and I'll include myself, just to be fair.

When is it too soon to feel outrage, or speak up about something that doesn't seem right? Better to speak up too soon than not soon enough.

Certainly, none of us knows what logic the authorities use when they question someone for doing something that is supposed to be perfectly legal.
But the actions of our officials should pass the smell test of logic, and in many cases they don't, and when they don't, people ought to speak up, or at least take notice.

Getting vocal when percieved rights are violated is something the gun lobby never hesitates with, why should things like this be different? (I'm not trying to be pro or anti gun here, just using it as a well-known example).

David B's situation was pretty innocuous, and it seems he handled it pretty well, and the cops in that case were reasonable. However, had they been looking for a confrontation, or just deciding they should make up their own laws on the spot, the outcome could have been rather different. If anyone believes the individuals that make up the government are always fair, reasonable, and play by their own rules, I've got a nice bridge to sell you, cheap.

That David's encounter went well doesn't mean people shouldn't take notice and pay attention.
 

thebanana

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Well my definitive proof that we are not as safe as we thought happened on Sept 11, 2001
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And what exactly did 9-11 have to do with photography? Zip. Zero. Nothing. So why are photographers being targeted? How does photography make a nation less safe? There's no connection, yet photographers get the 5th degree when plying their trade/hobby? How does that make anyone safer?

This kind of nonsense is all about creating the illusion of safety, it's not reality based. At worst it's delusional.

Not to mention, 9-11 might well have been prevented if only the FBI brass had listened to their field agent who first reported suspicious activity at the flight training school in Minnesota weeks before the incident. Good old fashioned police work will often prevent crime. Random ridiculous harassment of the general population is a waste of time and resources.
 

23mjm

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Andy----

If you read the OP david b was taking photos of a bus station--he was approached by LE and ask a few questions and went on his merry way. If there was an assumption of guilt of anything david b would have been arrested under probeable cause. Instead LE went out and investigated the situation and promptly decided that no crime was being committed. Asking question is conduction an investigation of a complaint or observed activities. I would bet that someone in the bus station or on the street contacted LE about david b activities!!!

david b I hope you are not taking any offence to me constantly using your name--if so I will stop.
 

firecracker

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It was not long ago I heard and read somewhere (perhaps my trusty lefty source Democracy Now!) that many parts of the U.S. intelligence department have been outsourced and in the hands of private sectors. What that means is it is no longer a business of citizens about their government and how they want to live and all that, but it iis now a matter of corporations slowly trying to control all citizens around the world. We live in a corporate state, folks. It's a gigantic one.

In Japan, we have the same exact phenomenon. We get more spied than before. But it's just not that well known yet.
 

Andy K

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If there was no assumption of guilt, why was he questioned?
 

firecracker

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Freedom for these corporations (some new high tech security businesses) means being above the law and/or in the state of lawlessness. And our governments are more or less working hard to let this happen.
 

23mjm

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thebanana---I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Now why pester us photogs????? Well the first step to attacking any target is recon and planning. I am a Firefighter--we have high hazard occupancies in our district--so we go out and tour them, map them, we even take pictures to show the location of importiant stuff, and there is the problem taking pictures. Terrorists have shown an ability to plan attacks very well. Pics are part of the process---so thats why LE questions us, because we conducting what "they" call suspicious activity. But play nice and friendly and they will go away.
 
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23mjm

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Andy K said:
If there was no assumption of guilt, why was he questioned?
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Never mind we will agree to disagree---but if i hear you right--if someone calls the police an says someone is doing something they think is illegal, the police go out there and locate the person they (the police) shouldn't talk to them so really the police should just sit at the station and show up only after a crime.

Pervention is NOT worth a pound (Kilogram) of cure--atleast to you.


Blackwater----OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF TOPIC but they are idiots!!!! And I wouldn't want to do their job either
 

thebanana

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Well the first step to attacking any target is recon and planning.
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Well then, the bad guys might as well target Niagara Falls. They could recon all day long and no one would notice.
 

Sean

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23mjm said:
Blackwater----OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF TOPIC but they are idiots!!!! And I wouldn't want to do their job either
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sorry OT but It sounds like Blackwater are starting to ramp up on domestic contracts. Imagine being interrogated about your street photography by shadowy mercenaries with no oversight holding m16's to your head.. I guess these domestic Blackwater contracts will fall under a new mission "Operation City Freedom"..
 

JBrunner

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Photography is not illegal.
 

nc5p

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That is a (taken from Homeland security website?) TOTAL crock! Google has street level photos, in addition to aerial photos on their site. There are millions of stock images that can be downloaded for either free (low res) or for a few bucks (high res). Virtually any public place in the USA has been photographed thousands of times and many of those photos are available for download. In addition, many cities (including Albuquerque) have GIS web access for the general public. There you can find detailed maps, property profiles, zoning, and ownership, plus recent aerial photographs in good resolution. All this plus location of buried utility lines and other infrastructure are all available for the taking. Here is the Albuquerque website:

http://www.cabq.gov/gis

There is NO reason whatsoever to harass photographers who are on public sidewalks. There isn't anything that's in street view that cannot be obtained by other means. I really don't know why law enfarcement wants to do this, other than they are stupid or putting on a show to impress the gullible public.
 

el wacho

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.... picture of me setting up homemade benbo style tripod in sydney. it wasn't 5 minutes before the police wanted to know what i was doing....
 
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David A. Goldfarb

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el wacho said:
crap! how do you upload a thumbnail? what i wrote is not funny without the picture!!
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Click on "Post Reply" (not "Quick Reply"), then "manage attachments," and follow the instructions for uploading a file.
 

JBrunner

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Criminals, terrorist or otherwise, are foiled and apprehended by intelligence and good old fashioned police work. Not by randomly interrogating people on the street.

As a tool of interdiction the dilution of effort is so vast that any reasoning in support of it defies credulity.

The motivations behind this stuff have nothing to do with "homeland security"
 

23mjm

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God I love this---it is amazing how some people can read something and come away with something quite the opposite---not even the same direction.

NO ONE SAID PHOTOGRAPHY IS ILLEGAL-----NO ONE

And last time I checked--when LE went out and questioned david b that was "good old fashioned police work" going out and investigating. I pretty much can guarantee this was not random---LE probable got a call from someone and they went out to do some good old fashioned police work and find out what the photographer was up to. Guess what they decided he was up to nothing big through that good old fashioned police work you wondered about. It's just not the good old fashioned police work is not what you think it is.
 
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