Questioned by the FBI and Local Police

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

J Brunnner

Thats just it Do you really know if all the "invasive tactics, general bumbling, and arbitrary rules" is doing anything? No disrespect intended but you don't know. You have an opinion, but I do not want to risk my life, my families life and my friends life--hell your life on an opinion, when you/we do not know all the facts. More LE on the streets, meeting and greeting has shown to reduce crime, not all the time but generally. I don't need to "have my papers checked" to feel safe, but if checking papers will indeed help make me safe then here are my papers! I would rather them keep doing what they are doing than stop and see if/when the next attack comes. I am a Firefighter and I have seen what happens in an area when the police get out on the streets, people who are up to no good don't want to be around. Now someone who knows a hell of a lot more about terrorists had determined that a bus station could be a target, if I am out shooting a bus station and the FBI comes and ask me a few questions--again here are my papers. Just look at the targets that terrorists chose in other countries, train stations, bus stations, air ports, public infastructure, and government building. These are the places were most of the contacts with LE have been. Sounds pretty logical to me.

JBrunner · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
J Brunnner

Thats just it Do you really know if all the "invasive tactics, general bumbling, and arbitrary rules" is doing anything? No disrespect intended but you don't know. You have an opinion, but I do not want to risk my life, my families life and my friends life--hell your life on an opinion, when you/we do not know all the facts. More LE on the streets, meeting and greeting has shown to reduce crime, not all the time but generally. I don't need to "have my papers checked" to feel safe, but if checking papers will indeed help make me safe then here are my papers! I would rather them keep doing what they are doing than stop and see if/when the next attack comes. I am a Firefighter and I have seen what happens in an area when the police get out on the streets, people who are up to no good don't want to be around. Now someone who knows a hell of a lot more about terrorists had determined that a bus station could be a target, if I am out shooting a bus station and the FBI comes and ask me a few questions--again here are my papers. Just look at the targets that terrorists chose in other countries, train stations, bus stations, air ports, public infastructure, and government building. These are the places were most of the contacts with LE have been. Sounds pretty logical to me.

So maybe we should look over all of your personal and public activities, financial transactions, personal correspondence, and phone records, on an ongoing basis, and search your house twice a year. That would be even more effective. Sounds pretty logical.

Andrey · Feb 29, 2008

Sean said:
I haven't been back home to the US in years but am starting to feel paranoid about my street photography next time I visit

It changed. There's an "air of danger" as one guy put it.

thebanana · Feb 29, 2008

Of course the irony is that while the 3 officials were across the street questioning the OP, someone with ill intent could have slipped in through the back door.

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

JBrunner said:
So maybe we should look over all of your personal and public activities, financial transactions, personal correspondence, and phone records, on an ongoing basis, and search your house twice a year. That would be even more effective. Sounds pretty logical.

Thats not what the OP was about it was about being contacted by LE while taking pics of a bus station! Thats it--and I have/see no problems with that. David b was just contacted, he wasn't harassed, him film wasn't taken away, he wasn't hauled off to the pokey and interrogated under a bright light bulb and given a cavity search. He was ask a few question by 3 LE officers and left to go on his way-in fact IIRC they didn't even tell him to stop shooting!!!!

Ps if someone in government wants to go through all my stuff--they can knock themselves out. I do have one suggestion for them get some caffeine--lots of it because they are going to be BORED:rolleyes:

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

thebanana said:
Of course the irony is that while the 3 officials were across the street questioning the OP, someone with ill intent could have slipped in through the back door.

Ahhhh thebanana good to see your not a criminal--I have noticed in my job that when the cops are out doin there thing the bad guys don't want to be around, they go lay low, or do their bad deeds somewhere else.

arigram · Feb 29, 2008

I took photos of a bus station here in Greece lately.
Was I stopped and questioned?
No.
Did any terrorists attack the building?
No.
Was it because of the lack of "security"?
No.
It was because nobody wants to blow up bus stations in Greece.
(think about this for a moment)

Once I was stopped by a cop right outside my house because I pointed my camera at their general direction,
even though I didn't take any photos (I was metering with the built in meter). He went right ahead and harassed
me while his partner stood next to him and looked quite bored with breathing. He demanded my film which of course
I did not give it to him.
If I was bored, had nothing to do all day and wore a uniform I too would harass random civilians to pass my time
and feed my psychological problems.

thebanana · Feb 29, 2008

Ahhhh thebanana good to see your not a criminal--I

I took the test, but failed....

Andy K · Feb 29, 2008

'If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear'.

I hear that with depressing regularity these days. I believe it to be a result of a dumbed down public too stupid to think outside the herd.

jd callow · Feb 29, 2008

Andy K said:
'If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear'.

When you hear those words you know the bad guys won.

arigram · Feb 29, 2008

Andy K said:
'If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear'.

"We want you to fear "THEM", but not fear "US"."
Its a case of
"If you are not with us you are with them"
Who are they?
"Don't worry, we will tell you who the enemy is, just trust us with your life"

Uhner · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
Thats just it Do you really know if all the "invasive tactics, general bumbling, and arbitrary rules" is doing anything? No disrespect intended but you don't know. You have an opinion, but I do not want to risk my life, my families life and my friends life--hell your life on an opinion, when you/we do not know all the facts.

There is a serious problem in that all organisations strive for their own well-being – and this interest does not always coincide with the interest of others – for instance normal citizens. This is particularly true when it comes to surveillance and military matters. I don’t mean that organisations that function in these fields are unnecessary, or evil by nature, but they can be problematic and in extreme situations a threat to the rest of society.

Hence – we need to be vigilant and question if all measures taken are indeed necessary.

If you think that this sounds like left wing, liberal whatever – (re)-read Dwight D Eisenhower’s farewell address to the American people:

Dead Link Removed

c6h6o3 · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
Isn't that the point of all that stuff is to try to make sure NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!!! I think so.

No, it isn't. The point of all that stuff is to appear to be making sure that nothing happens. That's why they target anything unusual or highly visible whether or not it could conceivably have anything to do with a planned attack. The unobtrusive (and I maintain that any real threat will always be unobtrusive) is ignored.

If, on my way to my train home tonight, I use my cell phone to photograph Amtrak infrastructure that really would be useful to a would-be terrorist I doubt I'll be questioned or even noticed since so many people are photographing in Union Station at any given time. But just try setting up a tripod in there and see how long it takes them to run you off. I swear, they must have tripod sniffing dogs.

arigram · Feb 29, 2008

Btw, I am happily surprised to notice that such a controversial subject that has been brought up so many times and so often in APUG is discussed with such civility and coolness and is quite far from being a soap box material.
Good job everyone, lets remain democratic!

JBrunner · Feb 29, 2008

c6h6o3 said:
No, it isn't. The point of all that stuff is to appear to be making sure that nothing happens. That's why they target anything unusual or highly visible whether or not it could conceivably have anything to do with a planned attack. The unobtrusive (and I maintain that any real threat will always be unobtrusive) is ignored.

If, on my way to my train home tonight, I use my cell phone to photograph Amtrak infrastructure that really would be useful to a would-be terrorist I doubt I'll be questioned or even noticed since so many people are photographing in Union Station at any given time. But just try setting up a tripod in there and see how long it takes them to run you off. I swear, they must have tripod sniffing dogs.

Bingo.

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

Uhner said:
There is a serious problem in that all organisations strive for their own well-being – and this interest does not always coincide with the interest of others – for instance normal citizens. This is particularly true when it comes to surveillance and military matters. I don’t mean that organisations that function in these fields are unnecessary, or evil by nature, but they can be problematic and in extreme situations a threat to the rest of society.

Hence – we need to be vigilant and question if all measures taken are indeed necessary.

If you think that this sounds like left wing, liberal whatever – (re)-read Dwight D Eisenhower’s farewell address to the American people:

Dead Link Removed

I agree with you---I am not afraid of my government BUT I do not trust my government--too many in government are self serving--there to insure that they can carve out a piece of the government pie---really mine and your pie!!!

They need to be watched with a skeptical eye, but as of now I don't feel we should interfere.

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

c6h6o3 said:
No, it isn't. The point of all that stuff is to appear to be making sure that nothing happens. That's why they target anything unusual or highly visible whether or not it could conceivably have anything to do with a planned attack. The unobtrusive (and I maintain that any real threat will always be unobtrusive) is ignored.

I don't mean to be rude but how do you know this? You assume 2 things. First, that what you see is all they are doing and Second, that what they are doing is doing no real good. I for one don't know the answer to these 2 questions. My crystal ball doesn't work. And my point is until I have definitive proof that what they are doing is not helping/protecting you and I then I am going to let them keep doing it, because right now what they are doing just doesn't affect me much. But if/when they go to far I will speak up.

JBrunner · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
I don't mean to be rude but how do you know this? You assume 2 things. First, that what you see is all they are doing and Second, that what they are doing is doing no real good. I for one don't know the answer to these 2 questions. My crystal ball doesn't work. And my point is until I have definitive proof that what they are doing is not helping/protecting you and I then I am going to let them keep doing it, because right now what they are doing just doesn't affect me much. But if/when they go to far I will speak up.

I would rather have definitive proof that it is doing something, (oh wait, I suppose thats "classified") even then, i'll take the danger with liberty. You assume it is doing something.

Anybody with a passing knowledge of history and a general sense of what personal liberty is about should be completley freaked out by now.

The slippery slope we are on, embraced by authority and condoned by the timid, is far more dangerous than any other threat we currently face.

By the time someone like you tries to speak up, its too late.

Andy K · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
I don't mean to be rude but how do you know this? You assume 2 things. First, that what you see is all they are doing and Second, that what they are doing is doing no real good....

A study has been done: http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2021024020071221?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

JBrunner said:
I would rather have definitive proof that it is doing something, (oh wait, I suppose thats "classified") even then, i'll take the danger with liberty. You assume it is doing something.

Anybody with a passing knowledge of history and a general sense of what personal liberty is about should be completley freaked out by now.

The slippery slope we are on, embraced by authority and condoned by the timid, is far more dangerous than any other threat we currently face.

By the time someone like you tries to speak up, its too late.

Well my definitive proof that we are not as safe as we thought happened on Sept 11, 2001

I feel the ultimate violation of my personal liberties is being killed by someone who doesn't like the way I think or worship the god I worship (if I do). If I want danger I will do it on my own terms---rock climbing, mountianbiking, or at my job. I don't want to get killed by catching a flight or waiting for a train/bus. Being ask why I am taking pics or for a copy of my ID isn't violating anything.

Here are my papers

Andy K · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
Well my definitive proof that we are not as safe as we thought happened on Sept 11, 2001

I feel the ultimate violation of my personal liberties is being killed by someone who doesn't like the way I think or worship the god I worship (if I do). If I want danger I will do it on my own terms---rock climbing, mountianbiking, or at my job. I don't want to get killed by catching a flight or waiting for a train/bus. Being ask why I am taking pics or for a copy of my ID isn't violating anything.

Here are my papers

Then I suggest you buy a lifetime supply of food and water, find a very deep cave in a very remote place, board up the entrance and never come out.

And yes, being asked for ID is violating your right to go about your chosen legal activity without molestation from authority.

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

Andy K said:
A study has been done: http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2021024020071221?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

Well I read the article--it is on the web it must be true---I remember reading an article on cold fusion to---not much came of that. I bet if I searched I could find articles on how flying is safer than ever--I recall seeing an article some at sometime that said that.

I am not a stupid myopic person I read a lot from many different sources both left n right. I make my mind up on the information I gather--I don't hold stock in just one study/article.

Ohhhh I love this

arigram · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
Well my definitive proof that we are not as safe as we thought happened on Sept 11, 2001

I feel the ultimate violation of my personal liberties is being killed by someone who doesn't like the way I think or worship the god I worship (if I do). If I want danger I will do it on my own terms---rock climbing, mountianbiking, or at my job. I don't want to get killed by catching a flight or waiting for a train/bus.

I am sure people in Iraq and Afghanistan feel the same way.
Strange how most people see it one way.
Plus, your way of life has changed.
Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

Being ask why I am taking pics or for a copy of my ID isn't violating anything.
Here are my papers

Wasn't one of main things Westerners had against Soviets that they didn't need to carry papers with them at all times, weren't questioned by police and secret services in random and weren't surveyed constantly?
Where is freedom and democracy now?
Oops, yes, we are all still free and democratic, just with a slight change of definitions.

Andy K · Feb 29, 2008

23mjm said:
Well I read the article--it is on the web it must be true---I remember reading an article on cold fusion to---not much came of that. I bet if I searched I could find articles on how flying is safer than ever--I recall seeing an article some at sometime that said that.

I am not a stupid myopic person I read a lot from many different sources both left n right. I make my mind up on the information I gather--I don't hold stock in just one study/article.

Ohhhh I love this

Reuters are so unreliable... :rolleyes:

23mjm · Feb 29, 2008

Andy K said:
Then I suggest you buy a lifetime supply of food and water, find a very deep cave in a very remote place, board up the entrance and never come out.

And yes, being asked for ID is violating your right to go about your chosen legal activity without molestation from authority.

Ah Andy and that the very reason I support (at this time) my government so I won't have to do all that stuff Asking a question in not violating you. Taking your camera/film and throwing you in jail for doing a legal activity that's a violation and I will not go down without a fight for that!!!!!

Also never said that Reuters or for that fact Harvard is unreliable---please read my posts and do not put words in my mouth---I believe both are reliable--but one article/study doesn't make it a scientific fact.

Questioned by the FBI and Local Police

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