Question on Mixing Formulary TF-5

PFGS · Sep 3, 2020

Is it necessary to mix an entire bottle of TF-5 in one go? For example, if I get the one liter bottle of concentrate, do I need to mix the whole thing to four liters of working solution, or can I just mix, say, half of it to get two liters, and mix the other half later? This is with an eye to both maximizing shelf life, and simply not storing a whole gallon or more of working fix at one time. I know TF-4 concentrate has a tendency to settle out but it looks like TF-5 is more homogenous?

Bormental · Sep 3, 2020

See their documentation here:
http://photoformulary.homestead.com/03-0200.pdf

STORING TF-5
All photographic solutions should be used as soon as possible. TF-5 stock solution should not be kept for more than 12 months. All fixers should be kept away from high heat (over 85° F), as this will shorten the shelf life. If TF-5 is to be kept for some weeks after opening, it should be placed in smaller bottles filled to the top, with tight caps.

PFGS · Sep 3, 2020

Bormental said:
See their documentation here:
http://photoformulary.homestead.com/03-0200.pdf

STORING TF-5
All photographic solutions should be used as soon as possible. TF-5 stock solution should not be kept for more than 12 months. All fixers should be kept away from high heat (over 85° F), as this will shorten the shelf life. If TF-5 is to be kept for some weeks after opening, it should be placed in smaller bottles filled to the top, with tight caps.

Yep, read that a couple times, but couldn't decide if the last sentence referred to mixed or unmixed.

Alan9940 · Sep 3, 2020

I believe one of the design criteria for TF-5 was that it didn't have to be mixed in one go like TF-4. Back when I used TF-5, I mixed working solution from the concentrate, as needed. Never had a problem with it.

Bormental · Sep 3, 2020

PFGS said:
Yep, read that a couple times, but couldn't decide if the last sentence referred to mixed or unmixed.

Heh, I didn't even think of this. I just assumed they're talking about the concentrate here, it makes sense: "If TF-5 is to be kept for some weeks after opening, it should be placed in smaller bottles.." - smaller than what? Seems like they're talking about the original bottle of the concentrate.

I just switched to this fixer and I'm on my 1st bottle which I have used about 75% of. It's been 2 months and so far so good. I will probably go and move the remaining 20% from the original bottle to a small amber glass bottle I have.

PFGS · Sep 3, 2020

Alan9940 said:
I believe one of the design criteria for TF-5 was that it didn't have to be mixed in one go like TF-4. Back when I used TF-5, I mixed working solution from the concentrate, as needed. Never had a problem with it.

Thanks, I think this is what I'm going to do.

PFGS · Sep 3, 2020

Bormental said:
Heh, I didn't even think of this. I just assumed they're talking about the concentrate here, it makes sense: "If TF-5 is to be kept for some weeks after opening, it should be placed in smaller bottles.." - smaller than what? Seems like they're talking about the original bottle of the concentrate.

I just switched to this fixer and I'm on my 1st bottle which I have used about 75% of. It's been 2 months and so far so good. I will probably go and move the remaining 20% from the original bottle to a small amber glass bottle I have.

How do you like it? I've ordered it primarily because I like the sound of 30 seconds to fix RC paper; I'll probably keep using the ordinary stuff for film.

Bormental · Sep 4, 2020

@PFGS I can't say I have an educated preference for fixers. I switched from an acid fixer (Ilford's) to TF-5 after stumbling across an article about advantages of alkaline fixers, namely the shorter wash times. I still fix all my films for 5 minutes and I still follow the same, Ilford-recommended wash routine, but I like the idea of extra insurance.

Alan9940 · Sep 4, 2020

Alkaline fixers are, also, preferred when working with staining developers like Pyrocat-HD. I've read many arguments concerning the use of acid vs alkaline fixers with a staining formula, but like Bormental said, "I like the idea of extra insurance" so I use alkaline fixer when working with a staining developer.

Peter Schrager · Sep 4, 2020

I've been using TF5 since it first came out. this was developed with the help of Ron Mowrey
there is NO need to mix up the entire contents. I use it for all my films 35mm; 120mm and LF
for LF I use Pyro and it is superb. Imix up 400ml to 1200ml H2O and keep a chart of how many square inches I use. when it gets to about 1500 square inches I discard....easy.....
I just received a gallon today today from B+H....
for paper I mix my own from NaThiosulfate and a pinch of sodium bisulfate added...
happy developing to you!
Peter

PFGS · Sep 5, 2020

Peter Schrager said:
I've been using TF5 since it first came out. this was developed with the help of Ron Mowrey

I didn't know about Mr. Mowrey's contribution, but I'm not surprised. I came to this forum after he had already left us, but it didn't take too long to appreciate what an amazing and generous resource he was.

photojournaliste · Nov 2, 2020

I don't mix it at one go. I don't think the instructions also mention that it needs to be used at one go.

Rudeofus · Nov 3, 2020

The fixer will last both as concentrate and as working solution. Ron once told me, he left a tray of fixer in his garage and the tray dried out. When he discovered the tray, he filled it with water and continued using it. TF-5, as all other neutral or alkaline fixers, are nothing like these acidic fixers.

Michael Teresko · Nov 3, 2020

Can anyone explain why its recommended to mix TF-4 all at once? Is it because of the settling of the components? I've blithely ignored this instruction and have split the quart bottles in half with no ill effects that I can determine. I do try to get all the settled components back in suspension before splitting the stock solution.

Rudeofus · Nov 4, 2020

Michael Teresko said:
Can anyone explain why its recommended to mix TF-4 all at once? Is it because of the settling of the components? I've blithely ignored this instruction and have split the quart bottles in half with no ill effects that I can determine. I do try to get all the settled components back in suspension before splitting the stock solution.

You probably did the right thing: get the settled components back in suspension. Since people are not used to concentrates with precipitates, they tend to forget this step and get poorly adjusted working solutions from improperly split concentrates.

david schaller · Nov 4, 2020

Michael Teresko said:
Can anyone explain why its recommended to mix TF-4 all at once? Is it because of the settling of the components? I've blithely ignored this instruction and have split the quart bottles in half with no ill effects that I can determine. I do try to get all the settled components back in suspension before splitting the stock solution.

I did that for years, with no problems, but when I talked to the Formulary on the phone, they told me to mix it all up at one time, and then divide the mixed fixer between different bottles. I've done that lately, and it keeps just fine (months) after being mixed. The rationale was that not mixing all at once would lead to different proportions of chemistry in the different mixed solutions, whereas it evens out once it's diluted.

Saganich · Nov 4, 2020

Alan9940 said:
I believe one of the design criteria for TF-5 was that it didn't have to be mixed in one go like TF-4. Back when I used TF-5, I mixed working solution from the concentrate, as needed. Never had a problem with it.

Me as well. I mix 1 liter at a time from concentrate and it worked through about 25 rolls of 36 exp, which is about 6 months for me.

Question on Mixing Formulary TF-5

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