Question from the idiot corner!

niclester · May 10, 2006

Hi,

Just developed my first 35mm film at home yesterday, and man I have not had that much fun in a while. It was great stuff!

I noticed that my Paterson System4 tank may fit two spirals in. Is it possible to do two films at a time? Do you need to double up on your chemicals?

Cheers all!

dschneller · May 10, 2006

Sure, two films at a time if they are of the same type and speed. And, yes fill with the recommended volume of chems.

Congratulations of first of hopefully many rolls. I get a kick out of it every time I develop a roll.

Dave

Paul Sorensen · May 10, 2006

niclester said:
Hi,

Just developed my first 35mm film at home yesterday, and man I have not had that much fun in a while. It was great stuff!

I noticed that my Paterson System4 tank may fit two spirals in. Is it possible to do two films at a time? Do you need to double up on your chemicals?

Cheers all!

The tank has information on the bottom regarding the amount of chemistry used per roll. If you used that amount (approx 340ml per roll, if I remember correctly) then yes, you can just double everything, load both reels and go for it. If you used enough to fill the tank, you already have enough chemistry to do two rolls.

If you are using only one reel, make sure that you leave the empty one on top to prevent the reel with the film in it from creeping up and causing uneven development. (or use the clip that Paterson makes for that purpose)

Bob F. · May 10, 2006

Most Paterson tanks have the required volumes for 1 and 2 reels of 35mm moulded in to the outside of the base.

Cheers, Bob.

[edit] Whoops - Paul beat me to it....

Paul Sorensen · May 10, 2006

Bob F. said:
Most Paterson tanks have the required volumes for 1 and 2 reels of 35mm moulded in to the outside of the base.

Cheers, Bob.

[edit] Whoops - Paul beat me to it....

I saw the word idiot and was drawn like a moth to flame. It's hard to beat me on the idiot questions!

niclester · May 10, 2006

Thanks everyone for your advice.. Two at a time will speed things up a bit! Or maybe I am shooting too much film!

Monophoto · May 10, 2006

If your tank is designed to accommodate two reels, it is a good idea to use enough chemical to develop two rolls and to have the second reel in the tank, even if you are only devleoping one roll.

The reason for this is that if you only put one reel in a two-reel tank, that reel can bounce around inside the tank. Also, because there is only half a tank of liquid, it will move around a lot more as you agitation. In either case, the result is that the film on the one reel will receive more vigorous agitation than if you have two reels and enough chemical for two rolls, and the result will be slightly higher contrast.

Ultimately, you want to develop (pardon the pun) a rhythm - you want to be able to predict how long you should allow development to proceed assuming that all other variables are held constant. To achieve that goal, you want to bring all of the variables under control - temperature, agitation pattern, etc.

Gerald Koch · May 10, 2006

A word of caution, do not attempt to develop two films that are of different emulsion types even though their development times may be the same. Development by-products from one film type may have a negative impact on the other film type.

PhotoJim · May 10, 2006

300 mL per roll.. I use Paterson tanks exclusively so I know it well.

You can even develop a single roll of 120 or 220 if you like. The reel can be adjusted. You'll need 500 mL of chemistry.

I bought a 3-roll and an 8-roll tank so that when I have my invariable mad frenzy of developing (because I tend to do it in big batches), I can do lots of rolls at a time. It is awkward handling an 8-roll tank full of chemicals and film, but it sure saves a lot of time.

Kino · May 10, 2006

niclester said:
Or maybe I am shooting too much film!

That's impossible!

Nige · May 10, 2006

I'm obviously doing everything wrong! Single roll in only enough chemistry to cover it (can't imagine wasting the extra chemistry), no 2nd reel if only using one (usually want to keep that dry for another roll), different emulsions at the same time (not that the times align much but have done it)... there's probably others.

Bob F. · May 10, 2006

Paul Sorensen said:
I saw the word idiot and was drawn like a moth to flame. It's hard to beat me on the idiot questions!

Much the same here, but seeing the word, I assumed it must be one of mine that I'd forgotten I'd written...

Cheers, Bob.

joeyk49 · May 10, 2006

Paul Sorensen said:
I saw the word idiot and was drawn like a moth to flame. It's hard to beat me on the idiot questions!

Y'know....I leave my corner for one second to get a beer and somebody jumps right in...

OKAY! I"M BACK NOW!!! Can I please have my corner!? SHEESH!

Congrats!....and, uh, oh...welcome to the Dark Side! There's no turning back, now...

Joe

gnashings · May 10, 2006

Jeez, I thought I was the champ in idiotship! I feel so... vulnerable!
Seriously, my father told me a long time ago: there are no stupid questions. That certainly applies here.
I have been using a single reel with no clip or second reel, with no ill effects so far. Mind you, I feel these are probably good ideas, both. And if I can remember, I might use them - but most likely I will only start after its toolate and I am staring at a half developed roll...
Also, I use the stirring stick, not inversions, so that makes my reels less prone to moving about - but still, the point remains, its a good idea. I think the only thing to note is that (as far as I know) two 120 rolls will not fit, but two 35mm should be fine in this particular tank.

Peter.

I just realized... they are all called "system 4", regardless of size... now I feel silly. The tank I am referring to is 6 inches tall (without lid). I think I deserve a loud and resounding "DOH!"

Donald Qualls · May 10, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
A word of caution, do not attempt to develop two films that are of different emulsion types even though their development times may be the same. Development by-products from one film type may have a negative impact on the other film type.

I've done this a few times without any visible harm. Fomapan 100 and Tri-X, for instance, have effectively identical process times in the developers I use -- and they're both common, ordinary, cubical grain B&W emulsions, nothing the least bit exotic about either one. I don't know that I'd want to process Fomapan 100 and T-Max 400 together, but you should be okay as long as all the films are conventional types, not T-Max, Delta, etc. "designer grain" films.

Paul Sorensen · May 10, 2006

Nige said:
I'm obviously doing everything wrong! Single roll in only enough chemistry to cover it (can't imagine wasting the extra chemistry), no 2nd reel if only using one (usually want to keep that dry for another roll), different emulsions at the same time (not that the times align much but have done it)... there's probably others.

I just had a student in my last beginner class who didn't bother with a reel on top and ended up with a roll that had a dark side and a light side because only about half of the film was in the developer between inversions. I was pretty amazed, I had never actually seen it before and had thought that I was probably being overly cautious.

Sanjay Sen · May 10, 2006

niclester said:
Or maybe I am shooting too much film!

Like Kino said, that is not possible!

Steve Roberts · May 11, 2006

niclester said:
Thanks everyone for your advice.. Two at a time will speed things up a bit! Or maybe I am shooting too much film!

I once had a Paterson three-reeler. Great for developing three rolls at once, but the downside was that it was quite possible to b***er up three rolls at once as well!

As for filling the space of the of the second reel, I always took that as read because without either the "dummy" tube or an empty spiral, surely light could get in when filling, emptying, etc.?

Changeling1 · May 11, 2006

niclester said:
Hi,

Just developed my first 35mm film at home yesterday, and man I have not had that much fun in a while. It was great stuff!

I noticed that my Paterson System4 tank may fit two spirals in. Is it possible to do two films at a time? Do you need to double up on your chemicals?

Cheers all!

Mark your calendar - The Glorious Day- in remembrance of the blessed event. Cherish the day and celebrate accordingly and responsibly- doubling up on only the photographic "chemicals".

Nige · May 11, 2006

Paul Sorensen said:
I just had a student in my last beginner class who didn't bother with a reel on top and ended up with a roll that had a dark side and a light side because only about half of the film was in the developer between inversions. I was pretty amazed, I had never actually seen it before and had thought that I was probably being overly cautious.

I've accomplished that once... when I put 35mm worth of developer in for a 120 roll... oops! But, I've never had the reel move on the centre post.

joeyk49 · May 12, 2006

Steve Roberts said:
.....but the downside was that it was quite possible to b***er up three rolls at once as well!

As surely as the sun rises and sets, that would be my outcome.

I stick with one roll at a time with a dummy reel on top, just to be on the safe side. If I booger something up, I have a good chance of correcting it by the third roll (I'm also generally an optimist).

and I concur with the others...You most certainly can NOT shoot too much film. ............Nor can you buy too much, have too much in your kit, your freezer or on your Ebay watch list (my wife would argue most of those points, especially the last).

Cheers.

Joe

pentaxuser · May 12, 2006

It's not to be recommended but on a night school course I even managed to put two different speed films in the same tank and was half way through development before realising. The dev times were a couple of mins different but both were salvaged by splitting the difference. OK both were old type Ilford films (HP5 and FP4+) but the negs from both were printable. So if it does ever happen to you, don't despair. You may be OK.

Mind you doing one at a time, avoids all these problems.

pentaxuser

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