Question for those dry mounting Fuji Crystal Archive Paper

I am a framer by profession, but am having a hard time getting good results dry mounting Fuji Crystal Archive glossy paper. Here's what I'm doing:

First, place print face down on an acid free mat board, put some colormount dry mount tissue over the back of the print, tack into place. Into press 5 min. at 190 degrees. Take it out of press, free the print from the matboard, trim off excess tissue from around the image, then place the print face up on desired matboard, with another matboard on top, 5min. 190 degrees.

The mount is perfect. What isn't is that the surface seems to be scarred from the heat. The gloss is slightly lost and almost appears dull when viewing at a certain angle. Anyone have any suggestions? Colormount tissue is made to work at 190 degrees. Is this too hot for the crystal archive? What about a stronger release paper?

Thanks for your help!

I have often seen colour prints mounted where it was obvious that the surface had been ruined by the dry mounting process. I can only suggest you try using cooler setting and see what happens and/or less pressure in press.
I guess its a question of finding the minimum amount of heat and pressure that still does the job.

With fibre prints you know that the print will not stay flat for very long if not dry mounted. With RC paper that should not be the case so unless you really need to dry mount, why not just hinge mount and not risk the print surface.

You put just the print and mounting tissue in the press (without the mounting board)? I've never heard of anybody doing that.

I just tack the mounting tissue to the back of the print(I also use color mount), then I trim the edges with a rotary trimmer (I trim just a sliver off the print so the print and tissue match perfectly). Then I place the print (with the tissue tacked to the back) face up on the mounting board (I mount on rag board), and measure to make sure it's exactly where I want it. Then I put a weight in the center to keep it from moving, and lift up one corner of the print and tack the tissue to the mounting board.

Then it goes into the press, sandwiched between 2 pieces of rag board. I use 180° and press for 2-3 minutes. I also use minimal pressure. I believe the temperature specs for color mount tissue are 170° - 190°. IMO, I don't think you need to leave it in the press for longer than 3 minutes.

max_ebb said:

You put just the print and mounting tissue in the press (without the mounting board)? I've never heard of anybody doing that.

I just tack the mounting tissue to the back of the print(I also use color mount), then I trim the edges with a rotary trimmer (I trim just a sliver off the print so the print and tissue match perfectly). Then I place the print (with the tissue tacked to the back) face up on the mounting board (I mount on rag board), and measure to make sure it's exactly where I want it. Then I put a weight in the center to keep it from moving, and lift up one corner of the print and tack the tissue to the mounting board.

Then it goes into the press, sandwiched between 2 pieces of rag board. I use 180° and press for 2-3 minutes. I also use minimal pressure. I believe the temperature specs for color mount tissue are 170° - 190°. IMO, I don't think you need to leave it in the press for longer than 3 minutes.

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No, I use the mounting board on top of course, and also a piece of foamcore below, though I don't think that it's necessary.

Your routine is very similar to mine. Are you dry mounting fuji crystal archive? And you've never noticed any scarring of the glossy surface? What's your pressure setting?

brian steinberger said:

No, I use the mounting board on top of course, and also a piece of foamcore below, though I don't think that it's necessary.

Your routine is very similar to mine. Are you dry mounting fuji crystal archive? And you've never noticed any scarring of the glossy surface? What's your pressure setting?

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I realize that you're not putting the print and tissue in the press without anything on top. By your description, it sounds like you're putting the print in the press face down for 5 minutes just to mount the tissue to the print (I assume you're using release paper), and then putting it on the mount board and putting it back in the press (face up this time) for another 5 minutes to mount it to the board? There's no reason to press it twice. All you need to do is tack the tissue to the back of the print, trim it, and then tack the tissue to the mounting board (optional, if you want to keep it from being able to move), and then put it in the press to mount it.

A piece of foam core is definitely not needed below, just use another piece of mat board. The extra thickness of the foam core might be increasing the amount of pressure to significantly more than you need.

No, I'm not mounting CA, but I've mounted a number of glossy color papers, including older Fuji glossy paper, and also Cibachrome polyester base glossy (by far the easiest to mess up).

I have an old McDonald press, and it doesn't have any pressure 'settings'. I adjust the pressure by changing the distance from the platen to the lever arm by turning a couple of large threaded wheels. I just reduced the pressure until I found the minimum pressure I need to get a good bond. With more pressure I was using 2 minutes in the press. With less pressure I had to extend the time to 3 minutes to get a good bond.

If you have any 'mistake' prints, It might be a good idea to practice on those (smaller prints so you don't waste a lot of mat board and tissue). You don't have to waste mat board on practice pieces either if you can pick up some cheap document mounting board.

From my instruction at Kodak, we were taught to prewarm or preheat paper to the mounting temperature to equillibrate size and temperature. If this was not done, we were told that stresses could take place resulting in a defective mount.

I have always done it that way since. I should add that any pressure and heat on the surface of the emulsion that goes over a certain tolerance is similar to a calendaring process and will remove the finish from the surface.

I also add that I'm no expert on dry mounting. I prefer to mount by other means.

PE

5 minutes is too long. I do use colormount for crystal archive prints. I tack the tissue, trim edges, place on board and center it up, tack to the backing board, put release paper on top, put spare piece of mat board on top and into the press for 2 minutes. My over matt has a border around the print: it has a 1/2" border so if it isn't stuck well, you'll see it. I had the problem with dulling the finish as well but i started using the release paper from the grocery store and no issues any longer. I started a post about this in March, do a search. Good luck
vinny

Photo Engineer said:

From my instruction at Kodak, we were taught to prewarm or preheat paper to the mounting temperature to equillibrate size and temperature. If this was not done, we were told that stresses could take place resulting in a defective mount.

Click to expand...

PE, to the best of my knowledge, the only purpose for preheating the print (and the mounting board) is to get rid of any moisture. If you have any moisture in the print or the mounting board, it can definitely cause problems getting a good bond.

When I lived in Florida, I always put my print and mounting board (sandwiched between 2 other pieces of mat board) in the press for 2-3 minutes to 'cook out' any moisture from the Florida humidity. I don't have any humidity problems where I am now, and I don't do that step any more and don't have any problem getting a good bond.

The term 'equillibrate size and temperature' doesn't make sense if you think about 2 things.

1. After you preheat the print (and board), you have to take them out of the press, tack the tissue to the print, trim it, measure and line it up on the board, and then tack the tissue to the board. By that time the print and board are back to room temperature, and not preheated any more (they are however dry if they had any moisture in them).

2. Once in the press the paper has plenty of time to prewarm/preheat before the tissue starts to adhere.

wildbill said:

5 minutes is too long. I do use colormount for crystal archive prints. I tack the tissue, trim edges, place on board and center it up, tack to the backing board, put release paper on top, put spare piece of mat board on top and into the press for 2 minutes. My over matt has a border around the print: it has a 1/2" border so if it isn't stuck well, you'll see it. I had the problem with dulling the finish as well but i started using the release paper from the grocery store and no issues any longer. I started a post about this in March, do a search. Good luck
vinny

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Wildbill, what kind of release paper can you get at a grocery store? Is it called release paper? Does it have another intended use?

I use a piece of rag board on top of my prints when I mount them (my method is exactly like yours, including the floating mat with a border), and I get a very slight 'orange peel' affect from the rag board not being completely smooth. It doesn't show once the print is behind glass, but I've been thinking about trying a piece of release paper between the print and the rag board to see if it would make it smoother. If I could find something at a grocery store, I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper.

We've mounted color prints the same as Azo prints--the only difference being the time and temperature in the drymount press. The process is incredibly simple, and relatively quick. I would never consider putting a print in the press more than once-- there is twice the chance of a piece of lint or dirt or whatever getting under the tissue and ruining the print. Mounting prints is always the most stressful part of the process for me.

Here is how it's done.

1: Tack print to color mount tissue: Use a small square of release paper-- 3x3-inches or so, just enough to cover area that will the area to be tacked-- tack for about 5-8 seconds-- just enough to hold it in place.
2: Trim print (and, of course, tissue)
3: Position print on receiving mount board
4: With one hand holding the print in place, lift a corner of the print so you can tack the tissue to the mount board. Tack by pressing in 1/2-inch or so and slide the iron out to the corner of the tissue. Using the edge of the tacking iron usually works best for this. it is a fairly quick movement (1-2 seconds) so no release paper is neaded
5: Repeat with another corner. (I usually do the bottom right corner first, then the top right corner.
6: Put in hot (175-190) drymount press for 45-90 seconds. We use two layers of plate finish bristle board from an art supply store instead of a piece of mat board. The bristle board is smoother, so it might be better for the surface of the print.

Richard has it correct.

You want to use a tacking iron and just barly touch it to the back when tacking the tissue to the print. Do not use much pressure with the iron or you will get a glossy spot on the front.

I mount color prints around 180 for 30 seconds, then I use a cold press (1/4 piece of glass and heavy book) to press the print in right after coming out of the hot press. I've seen color paper have a problem with forming bubbles before, and I think this step prevents that.

I think Ryan and Richard are doing it the correct way. 10 minutes in a press is way too long. You only need to heat up the tissue which can be done in a short period. I would follow Richards steps for mounting.

The key to good dry mounting is understanding the bond happens when the dry mount tissue cools from a more liquid state back to solid (sorry I can't give you the proper technical terminology). You need to put heavy weight on the print and mount while it cools to encourage a good solid bond.

If you want to remove a dry mount you simply heat it up again and quickly pull the print out of the press while hot and pull it off as fast as possible. If it cools back down it will adhere.

The amount of time in the press required to get a good bond is dictated by the amount of pressure being used, and the type of material between the platen and the print (although I agree that 5 minutes is generally longer than needed). If all you use is a piece of release paper between the platen and the print, then the time it takes to get a good bond will be very short. If you use a piece of mat board, 2 ply paper board will transfer heat significantly faster than 4 ply rag board. I'm going to look into the plate finish bristle board material that Richard mentioned. I've been using mat board/rag board for years and it works pretty well, but I'd like to find something a little smoother.

A lot of people advise against tacking 2 corners of the tissue to the board because it increases the chance of getting a wrinkle in the tissue if it's not pulled completely flat between the 2 tack points (not that it can't be done without any problems with a proper technique). I always tack the tissue to the print just a little off center to one side. Then when I get it where I want it on the mounting board, I put a 10 lb weight where it's tacked (a bit off center), and pull the corner of the print back on the other side and tack the tissue to the board fairly close to center. This leaves no chance of any excess tissue material being trapped between 2 tack points that could cause a wrinkle.

"I've seen color paper have a problem with forming bubbles before, and I think this step prevents that"

I would opine that the bubbles were caused by moisture in the print and/or the mounting board. I have heard of that happening if there is high humidity and the materials aren't preheated to get rid of excess moisture.

This mounting technique is exactly how we do it, 5 min in press is very long and not needed, as well in Canada right now it is extremely humid and we are therefore steaming out our boards as described.
For Crystal archive matte and luster we are hot mounting onto diabond *aluminum* which is helping reduce the orange peel effect.
for flex print and Cibachrome we are going to cold mount onto dibond with some success in reducing the orange peel effect.
This effect is mind boggling to get rid of. It has been explained to me that the pressure of the press and the pressure of the rollers break up the tension of the emulsion surface which then creates this pattern.
I am considering mounting the flex print face down with a foam and foamcore blanket which will absorb the pressure. the tissue would be on top in this situation and using 2ply for the mount with a bit more heat and less pressure the surface may not be affected as much as it is furthest away from the heat and direct pressure.
Haven't tried it yet but will next week to see if we can get rid of the dreaded orange peel effect.
We never see this effect when we face mount to plexi , which I find perplexing.

max_ebb said:

You put just the print and mounting tissue in the press (without the mounting board)? I've never heard of anybody doing that.

I just tack the mounting tissue to the back of the print(I also use color mount), then I trim the edges with a rotary trimmer (I trim just a sliver off the print so the print and tissue match perfectly). Then I place the print (with the tissue tacked to the back) face up on the mounting board (I mount on rag board), and measure to make sure it's exactly where I want it. Then I put a weight in the center to keep it from moving, and lift up one corner of the print and tack the tissue to the mounting board.

Then it goes into the press, sandwiched between 2 pieces of rag board. I use 180° and press for 2-3 minutes. I also use minimal pressure. I believe the temperature specs for color mount tissue are 170° - 190°. IMO, I don't think you need to leave it in the press for longer than 3 minutes.

Click to expand...

Bob Carnie said:

I am considering mounting the flex print face down with a foam and foamcore blanket which will absorb the pressure. the tissue would be on top in this situation and using 2ply for the mount with a bit more heat and less pressure the surface may not be affected as much as it is furthest away from the heat and direct pressure.

Click to expand...

Hmm, the logic seems sound enough. The only possible problem I can see is that the print might not get hot enough to get a good bond with the tissue. I'm not familiar with flex print material though. Is the back of a flex print more porous and/or less waxy feeling than the back of an RC color print? It's my understanding that the reason the print goes on top is so that it gets hot enough for a good bond with the tissue.

That is why I am considering a 2py rag rather than usual 4ply or diabond. the heat may get to the tissue faster to melt.
The flex is not as porus as regular rc and it really is a bitch to mount well.
The look of the print is excellent and a lot of our clients prefer it over cibachrome.
This is only an act of desperation to mount it backwards with a sponge pressure release on the bottom.
I will post if it works.
Apparently Drytac has a tissue which you run a spiker over which creates thousands of holes which allows less pressure and a faster bond. I am considering trying this as well to hot mount flex prints.

max_ebb said:

Hmm, the logic seems sound enough. The only possible problem I can see is that the print might not get hot enough to get a good bond with the tissue. I'm not familiar with flex print material though. Is the back of a flex print more porous and/or less waxy feeling than the back of an RC color print? It's my understanding that the reason the print goes on top is so that it gets hot enough for a good bond with the tissue.

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It is Bristol (not bristle) Board. We use Strathmore Bristol Board. It is quite expensive, but one 32 x 40 sheet cut to size will last for many years.

Bristol Board is perfectly smooth--unlike all mat board, the smoothest of which has a slight texture. We use two sheets above the print and one sheet below. Get 4-ply Bristol Board. It is the same thickness as 2-ply mat board. The 2-ply Bristol Board is like paper.

Michael A. Smith