Question for Forte Paper Fans

Uncle Bill · Mar 9, 2007

I bought a 25 pack of Polywarmtone Glossy Museum weight fibre paper to try out, I know Forte is Gonzo. How can I get the most out of this paper. To date with other brands I have my enlarger lens set at f8 and I am using Ilford Multigrade developer at 1+14 and the average exposure time is anywhere between 12 to 20 seconds. I have noticed with Forte the times are much longer starting at 20 seconds and with one print up to 35. I also have to leave the prints in the paper developor an extra minute or two.

So should I open up my lens to F5.6 from F8 and up the strength of the developer?

That being said I got one really nice print out of it and one not bad but not my best.

Bill

matti · Mar 9, 2007

I havn't been lucky with Ilford multigrade and Forte Fortezo papers (the graded variant of Polywarmtone). The prints became too muddy in the blacks. Since I switched to Dektol I havn't had any muddyness at all with Forte papers (Polywarmtone, Fortezo and the cold tone one, that I have forgotten the name of.)
It probably was my fault but I wouldn't use Ilford Multigrade with Forte again.
/matti

noseoil · Mar 9, 2007

Bill, Matti's suggestion for dektol (I use 1:2) with PWT is a good one, but the best luck I've had with the paper is with an amidol developer. Ansco 130 is also a good choice for inky blacks. I use selenium at a 1:19 dilution (1:9 is too quick and will turn your prints into plum too fast) to change the tone a bit and cool things off a tad. I don't use a warm tone developer with PWT.

This paper is very slow, so open up a stop and pour on the light! You won't get really nice prints until you overcome your worries about over-exposing it. Forget about the other papers you have used and start over with more light. Not sure about your paper developer (dilution and time), but this paper is wonderful to work with once you see how much light it can take for a full dynamic range. tim

ChuckP · Mar 9, 2007

If you are looking for warm tones try the Zonal Pro warmtone developer. Seems to fit the paper. Only problem is it doesn't last long so split it into several small bottles. Paper is very slow so will need longer exposure times.

matti · Mar 9, 2007

... and it lith prints very well.
One more thing to remember is that polywarmtone is said to only like red safe lights. (I tested it under my normal Ilford filter without any problem. But I only have one not so bright light so it might be different for you.)

/matti

Uncle Bill · Mar 9, 2007

Hmm, my safe light is a super dark orange filter, so that could be the problem. I am going to try a 1+9 dilution with the developer ( I like Ilford Multigrade and I am not about to switch to something else) and do the dip in the developer in total darkness. Honestly this is only a taste test of Forte papers, to say yes I tried them. Thanks for the input, I now have some food for thought.

I do like the real subtle warmtone though, just a hint.

Bill

hka · Mar 9, 2007

Uncle Bill said:
Hmm, my safe light is a super dark orange filter, so that could be the problem. I am going to try a 1+9 dilution with the developer ( I like Ilford Multigrade and I am not about to switch to something else) and do the dip in the developer in total darkness. Honestly this is only a taste test of Forte papers, to say yes I tried them. Thanks for the input, I now have some food for thought.

I do like the real subtle warmtone though, just a hint.

Bill

Ilford Multigrade 1+9 will be good at 3:00 min.

Donald Miller · Mar 9, 2007

You asked a valid question and I will step away from the prepackaged developers that others have suggested because they can not produce the optimum from any paper.

In my opinion there are several developer formulations that produce superior results. Most usually these are glycin or amidol formulation.

I like most papers, (Forte included) in the MAS Amidol formula for enlarging paper. Amidol has been widely acknowledged as the most active enlarging agent with the capability to remain active into acid solutions.

Rich Ullsmith · Mar 9, 2007

Second the lith recommendation. Even if you don't lith now, if you save some untoned prints, you can always play with bleaching and redeveloping in lith later on. That's what I'll miss about this paper.

matti · Mar 9, 2007

I agree Donald. Even though I find your reference print in the MAS amidol formula to have about the same tone as the Dektol-prints I make, I haven't been able to get the briliance and depth with Dektol. I am planning on trying out Ansco 130 or your pppd-formula.

/matti

Donald Miller said:
You asked a valid question and I will step away from the prepackaged developers that others have suggested because they can not produce the optimum from any paper.

In my opinion there are several developer formulations that produce superior results. Most usually these are glycin or amidol formulation.

I like most papers, (Forte included) in the MAS Amidol formula for enlarging paper. Amidol has been widely acknowledged as the most active enlarging agent with the capability to remain active into acid solutions.

Lee Shively · Mar 9, 2007

I've never used Ilford developer but I do like LPD at the 1:3 dilution with Polywarmtone. I would also open up the lens a stop to get a shorter exposure time unless the sharpness of the image becomes an issue at f/5.6. Polywarmtone works great with split filtration printing so you might try that.

I've also found Polywarmtone responds nicely to Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner--I give it a short bath without taking the print to full tone.

PWT is my favorite paper and I'm sure gonna miss it once my current supply is gone.

Jean Noire · Mar 9, 2007

Uncle Bill said:
I am going to try a 1+9 dilution with the developer ( I like Ilford Multigrade and I am not about to switch to something else) and do the dip in the developer in total darkness

Bill

I would agree with others here that Multigrade is not the developer to use to get the best out of polywarmtone, at least not in my experience. If you manage to get acceptable results with it then fine but it I would still recommend trying the other developers for comparison purposes.
Regards
John

HenrikB · Mar 9, 2007

A classic combination is Forte PWT and Agfa Neutol WA developer at 1+7, 2-3 minutes. You can tweak the results by overexposing and underdeveloping, but in normal circumstances this paper really benefits from a full development. Often you can see the blacks "sink in" at a certain stage around 2 minutes. Always use fresh developer!

/Henrik

fschifano · Mar 9, 2007

Forte Polywarmtone does not require a red safelight, though using one would certainly be safe. And the paper is slow, a lot slower than many of the other papers out there, but that's pretty normal for a warm tone paper. All tend to be slower than their neutral or cool toned counterparts.

See the tech sheet here: Dead Link Removed.

And this quoted from the web page:

Darkroom lighting:

During the enlargement and the developing orange or yellowish green filter can be used (e.g. Kodak OC, Ilford 902).
Working distance to direct safelight illumination should be no closer than 1,5m with a 15 W lamp.
Maximum safelight exposure time is 2 minutes.

Uncle Bill · Mar 9, 2007

Ok the slow speed of the paper is not a surprise, I had a friend who wound up with some Forte RC paper that drove him nuts.

I am going to up the strength of the developer. I guess the Forte paper is a real beast in comparison to Ilford, Zone VI etc.

One thing I did notice, I had one hell of a ring around the developer tray after the Forte session and it was a pain to clean off.

Bill

rusty71 · Mar 9, 2007

Uncle Bill said:
Ok the slow speed of the paper is not a surprise, I had a friend who wound up with some Forte RC paper that drove him nuts.

Bill

I've been using Forte Polywarmtone for a while. Seems they've changed the emulsion since I last used it in 1998. That old stuff used to split tone the most amazing peuce color.....

Anyway, what's this about Forte going out of business? Is that what was meant by "Forte gone Gonzo "?

Wayne · Mar 9, 2007

Forte IS out of business. They closed last month.

Wayne

Uncle Bill · Mar 10, 2007

Their website is still up and running. Judging by what was said around here, Kentmere is buying some of the paper recipes. While it won't be the same exactly, it will be something nice, hopefully faster and does not suck out the life of a developer after print #2.

Wayne · Mar 10, 2007

Uncle Bill said:
Judging by what was said around here, Kentmere is buying some of the paper recipes. While it .

I missed that discussion. Where?

Wayne

karavelov · Mar 10, 2007

PWT is very nice paper, I have a lot of success in lith-printing on it.

Fotohuis · Mar 10, 2007

PWT is very nice paper

Still one package 50x60cm PWT14 to go. The "waste" is for testing and to compare with a new paper which is hopefully very close to Forte PW14.

All efforts from Kentmere are not answered by Forte by the way.....:confused:

semeuse · Mar 16, 2007

I also agree with Donald about the glycin and amidol. I particularly like the Dassonville D3 glycin formula with the Polywarmtone.

Richard Jepsen · Mar 16, 2007

I don't care for Forte Polywarmtone Plus developed in warmtone developers such at Zonal Pro Warm, or dilute LPD. I prefer the print color of PF 130 and especially Ilford PQ. Fix in TF-4 and tone in selenium 1:10 for 2 to 3 min. The print color cools and print tonality is very rich with warm, deep blacks.

Question for Forte Paper Fans

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