Question for a Nikon Lens Guru

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

I've acquired a very old Nikon Lens. It is a 55mm f/1.2 SN#199748. Although the lens is bright and the optics look great, I have noticed that the lens will not "lock" to my camera body (Nikon F4). With any other lens, there is an audible "click" when a lens is attached to the body. Not so with this lens. Is it possible this is because it is a Non-AI lens. And, if so, will it still function properly even though there is not locking "click" when the lens is attached to the F4, a camera, to my understanding, that should pretty much accept all Nikon lenses.

Thanks.

removed-user-1 · Oct 7, 2015

It's true that the F4 should accept nearly any F-mount lens, but you do need to flip the AI tab out of the way before mounting. Here's a picture: Nikon F4 AI tab. I use non-AI lenses on my F3 this way regularly. That might be the problem, if it doesn't help then perhaps someone else can offer an answer.

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

rthomas said:
It's true that the F4 should accept nearly any F-mount lens, but you do need to flip the AI tab out of the way before mounting. Here's a picture: Nikon F4 AI tab. I use non-AI lenses on my F3 this way regularly. That might be the problem, if it doesn't help then perhaps someone else can offer an answer.

I'm aware of the AI tab. Even with that flipped up, the lens will not "lock" to the body.

gzhuang · Oct 7, 2015

Enjoy your lensbaby by Nikon?

bdial · Oct 7, 2015

If the AI lever is out of the way, it should click in just like any other Nikon mount lens. The little pin that retracts when you push the lens release probably isn't quite seating for some reason, it is what makes the "click". There may be some debris in the recess in the lens mount where that pin fits, or possibly some other distortion or problem that may keep the lens from turning enough. It shouldn't be too hard to spot what's going on, though fixing it could be another matter, depending.

In thinking about it, it might be that someone has removed the lens mount and put it back in the wrong position. If you look at where the pin recess is compared to any of your other lenses, that would tell the tale. In which case, it should be an easy fix.

mweintraub · Oct 7, 2015

Based on the serial you provided, it is originally a non-Ai lens. http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#50fast

Hm. Do you have another body to try it on?

Any photos of the mount for us?

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

bdial said:
If the AI lever is out of the way, it should click in just like any other Nikon mount lens. The little pin that retracts when you push the lens release probably isn't quite seating for some reason, it is what makes the "click". There may be some debris in the recess in the lens mount where that pin fits, or possibly some other distortion or problem that may keep the lens from turning enough. It shouldn't be too hard to spot what's going on, though fixing it could be another matter, depending.

In thinking about it, it might be that someone has removed the lens mount and put it back in the wrong position. If you look at where the pin recess is compared to any of your other lenses, that would tell the tale. In which case, it should be an easy fix.

I got it to seat properly. I had to give it a bit of a harder turn, but it worked. If I understand correctly--if this is a Non-AI lens, and I'm still not sure it is--I have to stop down when I meter and take the shot? Is that correct.

removed-user-1 · Oct 7, 2015

You do have to stop down when metering (using depth of field preview), but the auto-aperture should still work, which means of course that you should not need to stop the lens down to take the shot.

This is a fun lens (I have one), but I would not expect exceptionally good images out of it at the wider stops, which is sad since that is sort of the point.

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

rthomas said:
You do have to stop down when metering (using depth of field preview), but the auto-aperture should still work, which means of course that you should not need to stop the lens down to take the shot.

This is a fun lens (I have one), but I would not expect exceptionally good images out of it at the wider stops, which is sad since that is sort of the point.

I have seen some images taken with it. Wide open, some of the images I've seen look very surreal. In any event, I look forward to using it. How do you feel it performs once you stop down to around 2.8?

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

rthomas said:
You do have to stop down when metering (using depth of field preview), but the auto-aperture should still work, which means of course that you should not need to stop the lens down to take the shot.

This is a fun lens (I have one), but I would not expect exceptionally good images out of it at the wider stops, which is sad since that is sort of the point.

How do you feel it performs as a portrait lens? Is the bokeh as harsh and unnatural as I've read.

bdial · Oct 7, 2015

It' likely a non-AI. The way to tell would be that the f-stop ring has a step milled in it to mate with the AI lever on the camera. If it's even all the way around it's not an AI, or has not been converted.
The other way to tell would be that there is a second, tiny set of f-stop numbers at the back of the ring (nearest the camera body). On non-factory AI conversions these are on an applied label usually.
I'm not sure that lens was offered in an AI version, one of the Nikon info sites like mir should have that detail.

As rthomas indicated if it's not an AI you use stop-down metering to meter. It will stop down automatically for the exposure (or should if the linkage is functioning the way it should, it's an easy thing to check).

Ricardo Miranda · Oct 7, 2015

Here you can check the different mounts: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-153.html

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

bdial said:
It' likely a non-AI. The way to tell would be that the f-stop ring has a step milled in it to mate with the AI lever on the camera. If it's even all the way around it's not an AI, or has not been converted.
The other way to tell would be that there is a second, tiny set of f-stop numbers at the back of the ring (nearest the camera body). On non-factory AI conversions these are on an applied label usually.
I'm not sure that lens was offered in an AI version, one of the Nikon info sites like mir should have that detail.

As rthomas indicated if it's not an AI you use stop-down metering to meter. It will stop down automatically for the exposure (or should if the linkage is functioning the way it should, it's an easy thing to check).

The lens does have 2 different sets of aperture readouts, one of which is very tiny at the back of the ring.

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Here you can check the different mounts: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-153.html

Judging by the photos in that link, compared to my lens, it appears that mine has been converted to AI

macfred · Oct 7, 2015

Tom Hogan F4 Concise Instructions :

Nikkor Lenses That Cant Be Used with the F4

16mm f/3.5 Serial numbers 272281 to 290000 not compatible
28mm f/3.5 Serial numbers 625611 to 9999999 not compatible
35mm f/1.4 Serial numbers 385001 to 400000 not compatible
35mm f/3.5 PC Not compatible unless viewfinder is removed
55mm f/1.2 Not compatible
AF TC-16 Compatible with F4, but will not fit on F4s and F4e. Use TC-16A

http://www.filmbodies.com/accessories/concise-instructions/f4-concise-instructions.html

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

macfred said:
Tom Hogan F4 Concise Instructions :

Nikkor Lenses That Cant Be Used with the F4

16mm f/3.5 Serial numbers 272281 to 290000 not compatible
28mm f/3.5 Serial numbers 625611 to 9999999 not compatible
35mm f/1.4 Serial numbers 385001 to 400000 not compatible
35mm f/3.5 PC Not compatible unless viewfinder is removed
55mm f/1.2 Not compatible
AF TC-16 Compatible with F4, but will not fit on F4s and F4e. Use TC-16A

http://www.filmbodies.com/accessories/concise-instructions/f4-concise-instructions.html

Bummer.

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

macfred said:
Tom Hogan F4 Concise Instructions :

Nikkor Lenses That Cant Be Used with the F4

16mm f/3.5 Serial numbers 272281 to 290000 not compatible
28mm f/3.5 Serial numbers 625611 to 9999999 not compatible
35mm f/1.4 Serial numbers 385001 to 400000 not compatible
35mm f/3.5 PC Not compatible unless viewfinder is removed
55mm f/1.2 Not compatible
AF TC-16 Compatible with F4, but will not fit on F4s and F4e. Use TC-16A

http://www.filmbodies.com/accessories/concise-instructions/f4-concise-instructions.html

Although on Kenrockwells site, it contradicts this and says it does work on the F4.

Ricardo Miranda · Oct 7, 2015

In case of doubt, follow what the manual says: all 55mm f1.2 aren't compatible. The reason is probably due to interference of the rear element with the electronic contacts and/or the mirror. I hope your F4 isn't FUBAR.

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/archive/F4-F4S.pdf

macfred · Oct 7, 2015

What about Björn Rorslett's Lens Evaluations ? I will have a look.

Edit : Thank you Ricardo ! Why look so far afield when there is so much close at hand ?

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
In case of doubt, follow what the manual says: all 55mm f1.2 aren't compatible. The reason is probably due to interference of the rear element with the electronic contacts and/or the mirror. I hope your F4 isn't FUBAR.

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/archive/F4-F4S.pdf

Camera works fine. But i'll find another model to use that lens.

Ricardo Miranda · Oct 7, 2015

I suggest a Nikkormat, a F or a F2.

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
I suggest a Nikkormat, a F or a F2.

Thanks for the suggestions. If i can find a decent condition F2 out there, that would probably be my choice.

Christiaan Phleger · Oct 7, 2015

The Nikon F4 has an additional internal lever that is used to take a physical reading off of the lens's baffle near the mount; this a post that lets the FA and the F4 know that an Ai or later spec mount lens is mounted and also indicates to the camera whether or not it is a telephoto, which helps when the camera is used in the P(h) mode. On the F4 this post is needed to activate the Matrix metering and all versions of the 55mm f/1.2 have a clearance issue with the F4. Don't force it even if it sort of fits, what will happen is that either you'll break the F4 or it will be stuck at one metering mode possibly giving incorrect exposure especially with Flash. When I shot weddings in the 90's/2000's on the F4 and I didn't want to switch to AF lenses for the matrix metering (especially with flash) I modified several lenses to mimic the post and this worked extremely well.

RetroPhotographer · Oct 7, 2015

RidingWaves said:
The Nikon F4 has an additional internal lever that is used to take a physical reading off of the lens's baffle near the mount; this a post that lets the FA and the F4 know that an Ai or later spec mount lens is mounted and also indicates to the camera whether or not it is a telephoto, which helps when the camera is used in the P(h) mode. On the F4 this post is needed to activate the Matrix metering and all versions of the 55mm f/1.2 have a clearance issue with the F4. Don't force it even if it sort of fits, what will happen is that either you'll break the F4 or it will be stuck at one metering mode possibly giving incorrect exposure especially with Flash. When I shot weddings in the 90's/2000's on the F4 and I didn't want to switch to AF lenses for the matrix metering (especially with flash) I modified several lenses to mimic the post and this worked extremely well.

If such is the case, I guess I'm lucky that nothing seems to have broken. On the lenses I have that work with matrix metering, the metering method seems to be working correctly. I'm guessing this since i can see the exposure values change when i aim the camera at a light source and switch between the three metering modes on the DP-20.

GarageBoy · Oct 8, 2015

Get an F3 - the lens is already ai converted - an f3 is closer to an f4 than the f2 f or Nikkormat- plus the f3 uses silicon photodiode which ages much better than the the CDs in the f2 non as/sb models

Question for a Nikon Lens Guru

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