Question about the red film windows on the back of a Moskva 5

[Huss]

Hello!
Just picked up what seems to be a very nice Moskva 5 from Fedka. This is the first camera that I've owned/used that has the red glass windows on the back to show exposure count. Rookie question - I only open that when I wind the film to the next exposure? Then close it, to re-open again after I take a shot and want to wind on?
How does the film not get fogged when it is open? I am using colour film. Do I just wind it in the shade and spend as little time as possible with it open?

Thanks!

 

[MattKing]

The numbers you see through the window are printed on the back of the backing paper. The film itself is on the front of the backing paper.
Backing paper is opaque to light and is quite complex itself - a few years ago the then representative from Harman/Ilford who used to post here confirmed that it cost them more money to purchase the backing paper for a roll of 120 then it did for them to make the film itself. And of course, Kodak has recently spent years dealing with serious problems that started when they out-sourced their production of backing paper.
While the backing paper is good at keeping light away from the film, light is really good at getting around barriers. So it is prudent to minimize the chance of bright, flaring light getting around the barrier by keeping the window shaded when it is open.

 

[Sirius Glass]

When the camera was opened an exposure and part of the frame on each side was fogged. Keep using the film and when it is finished, process the film and see what else is on the roll before you got it.

 

[Huss]

When the camera was opened an exposure and part of the frame on each side was fogged. Keep using the film and when it is finished, process the film and see what else is on the roll before you got it.

Maybe I am mis-understanding something. There was no film in the camera - I put it in. With the red window open, I wound (in the shade) until I saw the #1 (took a while!) then closed the window ready to shoot.

 

[Huss]

The numbers you see through the window are printed on the back of the backing paper. The film itself is on the front of the backing paper.
Backing paper is opaque to light and is quite complex itself - a few years ago the then representative from Harman/Ilford who used to post here confirmed that it cost them more money to purchase the backing paper for a roll of 120 then it did for them to make the film itself. And of course, Kodak has recently spent years dealing with serious problems that started when they out-sourced their production of backing paper.
While the backing paper is good at keeping light away from the film, light is really good at getting around barriers. So it is prudent to minimize the chance of bright, flaring light getting around the barrier by keeping the window shaded when it is open.

Thank you for your detailed reply. I only uncover the window to wind the film, then cover it back up. Got it, thanks.
p.s. makes sense the backing paper is opaque otherwise how else did all my exposed rolls from years passed never get fogged on the way from my camera to being developed?! Didn't think about that!

 

[shutterfinger]

The "ruby" window fades over time if left open also. It should be about the density of a #25 deep red Wratten filter, Faded windows let in more light.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Moskva five I had was getting light leaks through these windows. I have to add light seals.

Home developed.

 

[AgX]

How does the film not get fogged when it is open? I am using colour film. Do I just wind it in the shade and spend as little time as possible with it open?

When rollfilms were designed films were still orthochromatic,. that is, still non-redsensitive. Using only red light to lighten the imprint on the backing paper put you on the safe side in any case.

With the upcome of panchromatic film some cameras got in addition to that red filter a metal cap to be used as default as long one does not look through that window, in order to counter the little red light that still might pass through that paper or being reflected around within the film chamber.

But keep in mind that panchromatic films similar to rollfim as the types 126 and 110 are only used in cameras with colourless windows and without additional cap.

 

[bernard_L]

There are actually two matching holes: one in the back of the camera and one in the pressure plate. Light entering through the red window might (possibly) find its way around the pressure plate to the front side of the film, in the film gate area or elsewhere. In the era of orthochromatic films, that loophole was not a concern, because of the red window. Depending on the camera design, it might be an issue with panchromatic film. An insurance against that would be a ring of black foam around the window, similar to the rectangular ring around the film ID window in P&S cameras.

 

[BMbikerider]

I had one of these - briefly about 10 years ago. On first appearance it was very nice. Actually it was almost pristine....but!

The lens was atrocious! the fall off in the corners was to the extent, it was more of a 6x6 camera rather than a 6x9. Whatever aperture I used didn't seem to make any difference. The rangefinder was inaccurate right across the range and not consistently so. One day it would register infinity, the next it would stick around 30 metres The shutter was inconsistent. The wind on sometimes became very stiff even without a film in the camera. The only thing I could really depend upon was the red frame counter window that never gave a problem!

We have a saying in UK that if anything has a series of real faults then it is a Friday afternoon model, with this one I think they took all 52 Fridays in a year and lumped them together. Never again!

 

[guangong]

How can the British automobile industry survive if it limits manufactue to Friday afternoons?

 

[Huss]

I had one of these - briefly about 10 years ago. On first appearance it was very nice. Actually it was almost pristine....but!

The lens was atrocious! the fall off in the corners was to the extent, it was more of a 6x6 camera rather than a 6x9. Whatever aperture I used didn't seem to make any difference. The rangefinder was inaccurate right across the range and not consistently so. One day it would register infinity, the next it would stick around 30 metres The shutter was inconsistent. The wind on sometimes became very stiff even without a film in the camera. The only thing I could really depend upon was the red frame counter window that never gave a problem!

We have a saying in UK that if anything has a series of real faults then it is a Friday afternoon model, with this one I think they took all 52 Fridays in a year and lumped them together. Never again!

That is why I made sure to buy this one from Fedka.com, as he checks the gear to make sure it works fine. Everything on it seems to be nice and smooth, and the rf seems to be correctly aligned. I will find out soon enough!
I am going to use this as a 6x6 camera anyway, as I already have a 6x9 and 6x10 camera.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I had one of these - briefly about 10 years ago. On first appearance it was very nice. Actually it was almost pristine....but!

The lens was atrocious! the fall off in the corners was to the extent, it was more of a 6x6 camera rather than a 6x9. Whatever aperture I used didn't seem to make any difference. The rangefinder was inaccurate right across the range and not consistently so. One day it would register infinity, the next it would stick around 30 metres The shutter was inconsistent. The wind on sometimes became very stiff even without a film in the camera. The only thing I could really depend upon was the red frame counter window that never gave a problem!

We have a saying in UK that if anything has a series of real faults then it is a Friday afternoon model, with this one I think they took all 52 Fridays in a year and lumped them together. Never again!

FSU lingvo would be "made on Monday" or "after New Year shift".

I adopted Friday traditions after working in Basingstoke, UK. Sony was hiring contract people by posting in the pub. Bach then...
On Friday, they only worked till noon. After it they only talked where they are going to drink.
On Monday they didn't worked till noon. Only talked how it went on Friday.
They came to do cabling in Moscow. Most sloppy cabling work I ever seen.

 

[BMbikerider]

How can the British automobile industry survive if it limits manufactue to Friday afternoons?

Actually the Nissan and Toyota Factories are among the most efficient and productive in the UK Automotive industry. Whilst the parent companies (Nissan = Renault from France and Japan) and Toyota from Japan both with a UK Workforce.

 

[moto-uno]

At one time I actually owned 3 Mockba 5 cameras . They all focused well and I can't say I noticed any extreme light fall off ( barely noticeable actually ).
The exposures were fine , so I'm assuming the shutter was reasonably accurate . None of them was as troublesome as my Iskra 1 was ( however it
definitely had a better lens ) . If I didn't compare the pics taken with it to the Mamiya 7 pics , I was not unhappy with my Mockba's . YMMV of course , they're
rather older cameras . Peter

 

[moto-uno]

 

[moto-uno]

^ One on Provia 100F from a few years ago , Not too bad with in it's limits . Peter

 

[guangong]

Actually the Nissan and Toyota Factories are among the most efficient and productive in the UK Automotive industry. Whilst the parent companies (Nissan = Renault from France and Japan) and Toyota from Japan both with a UK Workforce.

But they are, as you point out, Japanese companies, probably with Japanese concepts of factory management. What about Jaguars (Bought new, a friend was constantly returning to dealer. Car caught fire and burned up while under warranty. Refused offer for replacement and took refund), Bnntley (Someone I know bought brand new Bentley convertible. First day on road a sudden Florida summer thunderstorm. Top would only go halfway up. Car interiors soaked. Needless to say, a quick return to dealer). I can only speak about my own limited personal observations.

NJ insurance companies normally will not ensure cars over 25yrs old so my 36yr old MB is insured by company that insures antique cars and publishes car collectors magazine. Purchasers of British cars always warned of Lucas Electric, Prince of Darkness. Last year the WSJ reviewed top of the line Rover in Iceland. Very capable on all kinds or terrain,...but sure enough, electrical system died on last leg of trip.

Yet, British car design used to be attractive and unique. In early 1950s I lusted for an MG, despite the wooden frame and general unreliability.

Finally, I would never fault the British worker.

 

[Huss]

^ One on Provia 100F from a few years ago , Not too bad with in it's limits . Peter

looks good to me!

 

[moto-uno]

^ Thanks , and although I only have one left , I can't help but think of them somewhat fondly ( not every ones experience ) .
Nice big easily printed image in B&W , if you get one in good condition it's certainly the cheapest way to get that size of
negative acreage . Peter

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I had one of these - briefly about 10 years ago. On first appearance it was very nice. Actually it was almost pristine....but!

The lens was atrocious! the fall off in the corners was to the extent, it was more of a 6x6 camera rather than a 6x9. Whatever aperture I used didn't seem to make any difference. The rangefinder was inaccurate right across the range and not consistently so. One day it would register infinity, the next it would stick around 30 metres The shutter was inconsistent. The wind on sometimes became very stiff even without a film in the camera. The only thing I could really depend upon was the red frame counter window that never gave a problem!

We have a saying in UK that if anything has a series of real faults then it is a Friday afternoon model, with this one I think they took all 52 Fridays in a year and lumped them together. Never again!

It used to be said here, don't buy a car made on Monday's.

Hangovers and all that.

 

[BMbikerider]

The thoughts in UK were that on a Friday before they finished work, they cut corners and didn't do the job as it should have been done.

Friday's are also known as POETS day (P**s off early. tomorrow's Saturday)

 

[narsuitus]

How does the film not get fogged when it is open?

Some of my old film cameras have one red window, some have two, and some have three.

On my old film cameras did not have a cover over the windows, I use black gaffers tape to cover the window to reduce the light that may enter the camera.


6x9cm Cameras by Narsuitus, on Flickr

 

[Huss]

Some of my old film cameras have one red window, some have two, and some have three.

On my old film cameras did not have a cover over the windows, I use black gaffers tape to cover the window to reduce the light that may enter the camera.


6x9cm Cameras by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Do u pull back the gaffer’s tape when u advance the film to see the exposure count/when to stop winding?

 

[narsuitus]

Do u pull back the gaffer’s tape when u advance the film to see the exposure count/when to stop winding?

Yes, I remove the gaffer's tape when I need to advance the film. I try to stand in the shade when I advance film. However, many times I am shooting under low-light conditions and need to use a flash light to illuminate the red window so I can see the number.