Question About Swirly Bokeh on 6x6

Dan Quan · Sep 27, 2013

I have been pouring over the threads here and elsewhere on the interwebs and if i understand correctly the Swirly Bokeh is produced more easily when using a shorter focal length than would be considered "normal" for any given format.

So for 6x6 one would have greater success using a focal length shorter than about 8cm, correct?

But does that mean that using a medium long focal length will not produce the coveted Swirly Bokeh?

Thanks for your time helping me

.

Fotoguy20d · Sep 27, 2013

Its perhaps a bit more complicated than that. Petzval sharpness rolls off away from the image center, and you get all sorts of effects as you move further away. But, they also have a fairly small angle of coverage. Generally, they were used to cover a smaller plate than they could to avoid those effects. The effect though, is also usually a function of lens speed - the faster, f3.8-ish lenses are more prone to swirl than the f5+ lenses. I've had good success with 5-6" lenses on 4x5 (But I dont think you'd get more thana hint of swirl with them on 6x6), with them swirling nicely and usually vignetting in the corners. I've also had success with 4" lenses on 3x4 polaroid film.

Dan

Chris Lange · Sep 27, 2013

Tessar based designs also produce this effect.

elekm · Sep 27, 2013

And Tessars (and Tessar types) will produce this when focused at medium distances at larger apertures.

I have examples from a Rolleiflex with a Xenar, as well as a Super Ikonta 530/16 with a Tessar. Of course, I can't find them ...

Dan Quan · Sep 27, 2013

Great information! Thank you so much!

Andrew Moxom · Sep 27, 2013

Not necessarily so. I use a 90mm Great Wall lens on my Hasselblad, as well as a Darlot petzval equivalent to around 150mm ... Both can exhibit swirly bokeh. Similarly one system I know that does the swirlies is the Kiev platform. Their Arsat 80mm or Volna 80mm f2.8 lenses will do it.

MDR · Sep 28, 2013

Some lens design are more prone to swirl than others-Triplets (Tessar, Ernostar and simple Triplets) wide open (until f5,6) and busy background say trees = very often swirl
I believe the Sonnar is an exception,but my Rolleiflex Tessars and Rolleicord Triotars have a swirly Bokeh.

Dan Quan · Sep 28, 2013

This actually explains allot about the swirly effect I've seen in some old movies. Very helpful answers! Thank you all!

Please everyone continue to chime in, I am likely not the only one who finds this useful, I hope.

fran · Sep 29, 2013

Yes, I get it with a kiev 88cm with an 80mm lens - works best at f2.8 with the subject in the middle ground and a background with specular highlights (eg light through trees). By f4 its almost gone.

Also, I use a Zeiss Voightlander Icarex 35mm and with the Zeiss Ultron lens I get this wide open as well.

I think the simpler lens designs do it and if you want to pick up a lens that does it, then a search on flickr or elsewhere will help.

example from the Kiev:

Brother & Sister by francis morrin, on Flickr

Fran

Fixcinater · Sep 29, 2013

Yashica D with the 3-element Yashikor 80mm f/3.5 set at f/3.5, not quite but close to minimum focus distance. There was at least 20ft to the next trees that are swirling.

Dr Croubie · Sep 29, 2013

Strange, I'd never noticed it with my Volna 80 (or my Vega 90). I've got a roll of Delta3200 I shot yesterday with it, I'll see if there's anything swirly there.
But more than likely I just haven't shot the right scene to show it off.

The best lens that I've got for that effect is the Cyclop (or Helios) 85/1.5 for 35mm. That's equivalent of a 135/2.4 on a 6x6. I still get some swirlies with that lens on my d***l, that's like putting a 215/3.8 lens on a 6x6.
But there's no equivalent to the cyclop in 6x6 unfortunately, without going to a real brass petzval...

resummerfield · Sep 30, 2013

Dr Croubie said:
....The best lens that I've got for that effect is the Cyclop (or Helios) 85/1.5 for 35mm. ....But there's no equivalent to the cyclop in 6x6 unfortunately, without going to a real brass petzval...

I agree! I also have the Helios 85mm f1.5, and to get the bokeh that I bought the lens for, I have to use it pretty much wide open. I know of no other lens that has the same results in 6x6.

pasiasty · Oct 1, 2013

Belar lenses, 80/3.5, used for most of Flexarets were relatively good in swirling.

jdsanika · Oct 1, 2013

Yashica D w/Yashikor lens, shot f/3.5, trees about 15-20ft behind the sculpture.

Question About Swirly Bokeh on 6x6

Dan Quan

Fotoguy20d

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elekm

Dan Quan

Andrew Moxom

MDR

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fran

Fixcinater

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Question About Swirly Bokeh on 6x6

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