Question about loading Arista EDU 200 120 into a camera.

Huss · Sep 6, 2020

I just picked up some Arista 200 120 (thanks Gerry!) but am a little confused about the loading marks for when I load my camera with it.
All the 120 films I have used so far have an extended leader, which you wind until you see the START line. It usually takes a few cranks to get there. With this Arista 200, it just says START on the leader almost immediately. Should it still be wound on until a different/additional (?) start line appears?

Thanks
Huss

Prest_400 · Sep 6, 2020

Fomapan (Arista) has a wide double arrow a few winds into the roll. I've seen the warning of this early start mark on some Fomapan reviews.
Good film BTW although sometimes I saw coating comets and dots. Good film although admittedly not box speed on most developers. The Foma 100 is beautiful, and cheap.

Donald Qualls · Sep 6, 2020

Yes, Fomapan and Arista .EDU Ultra films have the arrows that run the full width of the backing, at the standard location. Happen to have a dummy roll on my desk -- the arrows are around 6-7 cm past the word START. Not sure why they put the word so far ahead of the arrows.

Huss · Sep 7, 2020

Well, poop. Thanks for the comments, the next 29 rolls will be loaded correctly! It will be interesting to see how much film was wasted on this roll. I used this roll in a Lomo LC-A 120, which does not exactly have a precise film feed.

Donald Qualls · Sep 8, 2020

If you loaded to the word START, your first frame will be cut off at the taped head end, and your spacing may be narrower than normal (perhaps even overlapped) -- depends whether the LC-A 120 counts turns or has a friction roller to measure distance. You'll then wind up with a frame or so of unexposed film at the tail.

But now the next 29 will be loaded right -- and all the .EDU Ultra or Fomapan you ever use going forward (good film for the price, it's my standard for 35mm, 120, 9x12 and 4x5).

pentaxuser · Sep 8, 2020

This is confusing to say the least. If the word "Start" then what is it for and if it should be ignored where should the film be wound on to?

It would appear to be a problem with both Fomapan and Arista EDU but presumably neither say to ignore their mistake and wind on to position X

Currently I have only used Ilford, Fuji and Kodak 120 films in my P645N where the instructions clearly indicate getting the word Start in line with the start line in the insert so with a P645N or indeed any other camera with inserts that load automatically once you wind to the start line should the start be ignored and if so how much further do I wind the film on for?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Sep 8, 2020

@pentaxuser Your P645N might possibly expect a longer leader than most inserts. I can confirm that in my Graflex 22 and two different RB67 inserts, if I load the film with the arrows (on the Foma/.EDU Ultra backing paper) precisely in line with the arrow, the film winds to the correct location (and in the 22, I get good spacing as a result). I've never seen instructions to use the word START instead of the arrows -- but I've never used a P645N, either. I'm not at home, so can't check a Kodak or Fuji backing (and anyway, the backing I have for those is fifteen years old or so) -- do they perhaps put the START actually in the arrows that run across the backing?

I'd certainly only change the way you load your P645N if you're getting frames cut off at the head or tail, or overlaps.

MattKing · Sep 8, 2020

pentaxuser said:
This is confusing to say the least. If the word "Start" then what is it for and if it should be ignored where should the film be wound on to?

Donald Qualls said:
Yes, Fomapan and Arista .EDU Ultra films have the arrows that run the full width of the backing, at the standard location. Happen to have a dummy roll on my desk -- the arrows are around 6-7 cm past the word START. Not sure why they put the word so far ahead of the arrows.

I guess START really means "Get ready to START". Or it is there to help differentiate that end from the other end - is there an "EXPOSED" at that end?
I'm wondering if there is a language/translation issue.

Donald Qualls · Sep 8, 2020

Yes, there is an EXPOSED at the tail end. To be honest, I never paid that much attention to those markings until I got my RB67 -- first and (with three roll film holders plus the 220 holder that I use for 35mm) only camera I''ve owned to date that uses the start marks. Seems to me the loading instructions I found only talked about the arrows, not the START -- hence my presumption that Kodak, Fuji, and Ilford films (as well as ORWO, Adox, Agfa/Rollei, Lucky, and Svema) have the arrows.

pentaxuser · Sep 8, 2020

MattKing said:
I guess START really means "Get ready to START". Or it is there to help differentiate that end from the other end - is there an "EXPOSED" at that end?
I'm wondering if there is a language/translation issue.

In the case of the P45N start does mean start i.e. lining up the word start with the marked start line in the insert results in 16 perfectly spaced frames

It may be that it is a warning for red window folders for instance where you do need to manually wind until the figure one appears. It may be that as a user you need to pay attention to the camera's loading instructions only, assuming you have them and use start as the start only if so instructed and this may well be the position that the film makers take as they have no way of knowing the specifics of your camera's correct loading method. To that extent Start is an instruction to be obeyed in some cameras and merely a warning in others that you are will reach the run-in to the all important numbers

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Sep 8, 2020

@pentaxuser In a red window start frame counter (like my Kodak Reflex II or Super Ikonta B 532/16) you wind for what seems a rather long way past the START and start mark arrows to get to the warning marks and 1. It's the equivalent of about four 6x6 frames. The arrows across the backing and START associated with them are strictly for no-window cameras.

Huss · Sep 8, 2020

This is what it looks like. Weird. Developing the film now, will soon see how much has been wasted!

Huss · Sep 9, 2020

Annnd... only lost one frame. So, cool!

Donald Qualls · Sep 9, 2020

That matches other Foma backing paper I have. I keep seeing this thread when I'm not at home, so I can't check the (15 year old) Fuji and Kodak backing I have from recent processing.

albireo · Sep 10, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
That matches other Foma backing paper I have. I keep seeing this thread when I'm not at home, so I can't check the (15 year old) Fuji and Kodak backing I have from recent processing.

Yep the marks are the same but the colour is different. Interesting that the one shown by OP is black. How about the one you use? Do you use Foma or Arista? Foma's backing paper is white over here, not black. It has been white for a few years now. Wonder if Arista is repackaged old stock Foma?

R.Gould · Sep 10, 2020

Foma at one time used a black paper for years, then a black paper with green on the leader, and for a few years now have used the same white paper as used by Ilford Etc, but the printing and marks remained the same for the last 25 years to my certain knowledge, as I have used the film's for at least 25 years, I think they must have had large stocks of the old paper, and being a thrifty company used every last roll up before changing, indeed, at one time you would get either black or green/black in the same batch

abruzzi · Sep 13, 2020

My experience is that Foma uses white for 100 and black for 400.

R.Gould · Sep 14, 2020

abruzzi said:
My experience is that Foma uses white for 100 and black for 400.

For at least the last 2 years over here all foma film, 100,200 and 400 use white backing paper, appears to be the same paper than Ilford,Etc uses, Could be that you are getting old stock, or they use different paper for the USA

Huss · Feb 6, 2021

Ya know how you know you're losing it? When you load a roll of Arista EDU 200 120, and only see the START text. But no start line. So you google it. And find this thread that you created when you did this 6 months ago...

Sonofa...

Question about loading Arista EDU 200 120 into a camera.

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