question about lenses and salty air..

chris77 · Sep 16, 2015

hello apug!

dont know where to post this..

well, one hour of photography on the beach this afternoon.
quite some wind, humidity, and salty air today (mediterranean sea)

when i came home i checked the lens surfaces. yes, obvious signs of the salty/humid air.

i used just a rocket blower and then a slightly wet microfiber cloth (from the optician) and then some silicone-free disposal lens tissues on one lens.

on the other one i only used the blower and fog from my breath with lens paper-tissue until clean (2 times).

2 questions come up.

is this simple procedure good enough to clean and therefore protect the coating? the lenses do look clean to the eye now.

can some of you give me real life experience how bad salty air is for the lenses (i dont live permanently by the sea and altogether used the camera 2 or 3 times on the beach this month, cleaned it in the same way when i came home).

lenses are coated mamiya sekor-z.

thanks.
chris

ps. i gave the camera body a nice wiping with microfiber cloth as well, and the tripod of course..

John Koehrer · Sep 16, 2015

I'm of the use a filter near salt water persuasion. Sounds like you have the cleaning part down OK, when I use tissue I'll wad a corner of it so there's a cushion between my finger and lens.

Alan Gales · Sep 16, 2015

I agree with John. Use a UV or clear filter at the beach for protection.

Gerald C Koch · Sep 16, 2015

I was at the beach one windy day. It was not until several weeks later that I noticed the salty spray had etched small spots on the front element of my multicoated lens. You need to use distilled water to repeatedly clean any salt from the lens surface. I am a big fan of lens tissue. Cloths can trap grit that may not be removed by washing.

I agree with using a "transparent lens cap", ie a UV filter or such.

NitroRoo · Sep 16, 2015

If you are really concerned, use a filter as was suggested. When I was shooting weddings full time, I probably shot hundreds of weddings at the beach over the course of 6 years or so. The only noticeable effect to my gear was some white (presumably salt) deposits on the rubber focus rings, etc. I suspect this was largely from sweat though and not salt spray. I cleaned my lenses with air, a lens brush, and usually a lens pen or cloth. Never noticed any ill effects. This was mostly with modern canon L glass so YMMV.

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 16, 2015

Very interesting.
In 1998 I lost a Canon fisheye after exposure to quite extreme environmental conditions of working on a wind-blown, very salty shoreline with rain, salt spray and high humidity. I took all precautions to clean ther huge, exposed lens element (no filter could be put on that fisheye) yet the day after, still in the awful humid climate of the west coast of Tasmania, mottling appeared on the lens surface and it was not going to be removed. I tried everything I could from water to meth to OptiClean (a polymeric film-forming cleaner). The lens was sent to Canon for examination, and they attempted to clean it but to no avail, so the lens with the ugly speckled mottling was written off. This is an object lesson in why it is essential to use a filter on the front — matched to the quality of the lens in use, rather than risk all with a bare, exposed element. True, many photographers are sworn enemies of filters for whatever silly reason. The mottling was said to be salt attack. A similar thing has been seen inside mirror boxes on mirrors exposed to these conditions e.g. when changing lenses (which should not be done in aggressive conditions like what I experienced).

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

thanks for sharing your experience everybody.
it really makes sense to use a filter in such conditions.
i have rechecked and recleaned all lenses involved today. guess they are ok!
will use a uv/haze filter from now on when on the beach.
chris

paul ron · Sep 17, 2015

the uv filter is your best defence. coatings are veey tough n need quite a bit more than salt air to damage them.

wipe everything with a clean dampened cloth with distilled water n that should be more than enough.

as mentioned, use a new clean cloth on the lenses.

Xmas · Sep 17, 2015

Deep lens hoods as well.

Just you wait until a sea gull targets you with a PGM.

Noel

RalphLambrecht · Sep 17, 2015

Alan Gales said:
I agree with John. Use a UV or clear filter at the beach for protection.

I agree,that's a good reason for an UVprotection filter;it keeps dirt,salt and greasy finger prints off the front lens element;it's better to have cleaning scratches on a replacable filter than on an expensive lens.

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
I agree,that's a good reason for an UVprotection filter;it keeps dirt,salt and greasy finger prints off the front lens element;it's better to have cleaning scratches on a replacable filter than on an expensive lens.

makes sense..

maybe its time for me to do my personal "with and without" comparison tests to get the idea out of my head, that a filter "must" degrade/change image quality in a way..

RobC · Sep 17, 2015

_*_ said:
makes sense..

maybe its time for me to do my personal "with and without" comparison tests to get the idea out of my head, that a filter "must" degrade/change image quality in a way..

Yes it will but then so will salt spray on the lens. Which do you prefer?

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 17, 2015

I generally don't use a filter for protection unless there is an obvious hazard, and the beach is one of those places where I consider there to be an obvious hazard from sea spray and sand. Crowds are another situation where I would use a filter for protection.

Sirius Glass · Sep 17, 2015

I use lens covers, UV filters, and lens hoods all the time. Salty air is no exception. The lenses should be cleaned regularly.

chris77 · Sep 17, 2015

David A. Goldfarb said:
I generally don't use a filter for protection unless there is an obvious hazard, and the beach is one of those places where I consider there to be an obvious hazard from sea spray and sand. Crowds are another situation where I would use a filter for protection.

that sounds about right to me..

Jon Shiu · Sep 17, 2015

I live right by the ocean and don't use any UV filter. Have never had any problem with damage to the lens from sea spray.

Jon

Kirks518 · Sep 17, 2015

I also live on the water (Gulf of Mexico), and I'm like Jon above.

However, if I'm out in extreme weather (wind, etc), I try to use a filter. I'm not anti-filter for film work (just don't ask me when it comes to that newer technology).

When cleaning salt spray, I would first blow, then brush (with either a camel hair or blower brush), and then as a last resort use very wet lens tissue or microfibre (microfibre being the absolute last resort). If you get one grain of salt that hasn't dissolved, or one grain of sand, that tissue/cloth can cause some major issues.

Poisson Du Jour · Sep 17, 2015

A number of high-end B+W filters are ideal for extreme climates; virtually nothing will stick to them, not even stains. You pay a pretty penny for these gems but you'll pay even more pennies if your front element comes to unexpected grief.

Obvious hazards to an unprotected front lens element exist everywhere in daily life, not just those where they are readily recognised like the beach, crowds etc. How about the camera on your right shoulder. You come through an open door, then turn around and the front of the lens bangs onto the sharp-edged door catch. Tell me what you see!! :confused: I've seen this happen and it has brough tears to a grown man. Tut-tuts and "oh, that sort of thing will never happen to me!" achieve nothing.

Nodda Duma · Sep 17, 2015

If it tells you anything, the Navy and USMC often allow lens covers when performing salt fog testing on imaging units.

It is very hard on coatings and I would never expose optics directly to salty air

chris77 · Sep 18, 2015

well, seems like

there are 3 groups here when it comes to making photographs by the sea.

those who take precaution, using filters (more or less all the time) because something might happen
those who have experienced damage and therefore use filters since then
those who dont use filters and havent experienced any damage at all

hmmm... so maybe it makes sense to consider different ways/qualitites/brands of coating?
or how else could this be understood..?

RobC · Sep 18, 2015

It can be understood extremely simply. Salt causes corrosion (oxidation which means rust) on most metals. Common sense dictates that you need to take extra special care when taking a camera near salt water.

I detroyed a LF copal shutter when tripod toppled over on a beach and salt water spalshed it. The lens was OK after I washed the front element in fresh water when I got home. I also flushed out the shutter with fresh water and dried it in a warm place. It all worked fine for a while afterwards. Lens was perfect. But then shutter started playing up. Cocking lever spring broke and x-sync terminal stopped working. I opened up the shutter and it was full of rust. Result was new shutter required.
Salt is bad. So its not only your lens front element you should take care of, its your whole camera. And that also applies to rainy days. Water is bad for cameras too as is condensation.

chris77 · Sep 18, 2015

RobC said:
It can be understood extremely simply. Salt causes corrosion (oxidation which means rust) on most metals. Common sense dictates that you need to take extra special care when taking a camera near salt water.

I detroyed a LF copal shutter when tripod toppled over on a beach and salt water spalshed it. The lens was OK after I washed the front element in fresh water when I got home. I also flushed out the shutter with fresh water and dried it in a warm place. It all worked fine for a while afterwards. Lens was perfect. But then shutter started playing up. Cocking lever spring broke and x-sync terminal stopped working. I opened up the shutter and it was full of rust. Result was new shutter required.
Salt is bad. So its not only your lens front element you should take care of, its your whole camera. And that also applies to rainy days. Water is bad for cameras too as is condensation.

rob
i am well aware of the corrosive activity induced by salt. and would like to keep the focus on the lenses right now.
because there are people here who claim that they have never had any problems (i assume they do clean their lenses regularly) although they live and/or work near the sea.
how does it go together?

Xmas · Sep 18, 2015

It is safe taking a sea scape 1/4 mine inland on force 1 day.

Force 8 just other side of storm wall solid water over head is a different matter.

Our sea gulls vary in size and Heath.

chris77 · Sep 18, 2015

Xmas said:
It is safe taking a sea scape 1/4 mine inland on force 1 day.

Force 8 just other side of storm wall solid water over head is a different matter.

Our sea gulls vary in size and Heath.

MontanaJay · Sep 19, 2015

In a dozen years of news photography on the coast of Maine I found damage to lens coatings to be unavoidable without a filter.
And you don't need to be on the beach. I visited my in-laws home once -- 25 miles from the coast -- after a winter storm and there was salt spray on car windshields that far inland.
Blowing beach sand is another problem.

question about lenses and salty air..

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