Question about just-received first TLR

MichiTimm · Nov 13, 2015

I just received a Ciro-flex TLR (my first TLR) that I was told is fully functional, had been used throughout the summer.

I haven't yet put film in it but was kind of playing around to get familiar with it. Set the aperture, set the shutter speed, pressed the shutter lever. Nothing. I expected that when looking into the taking lens - or through it with the back of the opened camera - I would see the shutter leaf-thingies open and close really fast, or when I set the shutter to B that I would see them open and stay open until I released the lever. Instead all I see is one of the levers sorta kinda twitch a little like it's trying to move but can't quite do it.

My question is: am I missing something, or is something not working right here? I'd hate to ask for a refund just to have the guy say, hey did you do such-and-such first like you're supposed to? But I get the feeling I've bought a TLR that needs some TLC, and if so I want no part of it.

R.Gould · Nov 13, 2015

Not a tlr I know, but in most, if not all, the shutter will need cocking before it fires, I have 4, and on my Rolleicord you have a shutter cocking lever, as does my Microcord and weltaflef, which you need to set before the shutter fires, on my Rolleiflex winding the film with the winding lever cocks the shutter, so check if it has a shutter cocking lever, or if not then try winding the film wind knob or lever then firing the shutter,

MichiTimm · Nov 13, 2015

Thanks, I actually did try winding the film knob before firing, made no difference. Did a little online research and learned that the Alphax shutters (which this has) are self-cocking, so I shouldn't need to do anything there. And the lever itself does indeed snap back into place after pressing it -- which I figure to be the self-cocking part of it.

AgX · Nov 13, 2015

The manual says you have to cock the shutter:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/ciro-flex/ciroflex.pdf

MichiTimm · Nov 13, 2015

Mine has the "Automatic Alphax shutter" - I assume the manual is talking about the Rapax shutter pictured. If I'm wrong, could someone please explain how to cock it?

Xmas · Nov 13, 2015

Two options

- email vendor
- load a film and see if it fires

You should do last anyway to check it actually works as a camera.

trythis · Nov 13, 2015

How can a shutter spring self cock? Either the film wind mechanism does it or it has to be pulled manually, right?

My yashicamat started doing what yours sounds like it could be doing ... and in the end the shutter mechanism needed to be cleaned.

If the shutter blades are shifting when you press the shutter release every single time you press the shutter release without winding the film then perhaps the shutter is not being cocked.

If the shutter wiggles only after winding the film when you press to release then it sounds like it needs service. It's very possible that the shutters cock mechanism requires film in the camera however, so try that first.

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AgX · Nov 13, 2015

trythis said:
How can a shutter spring self cock? Either the film wind mechanism does it or it has to be pulled manually, right?

There is a third way: cocking by pressing the release button.

The Prontor Press shutter does so.

Perry B · Nov 13, 2015

The Alphax shutter is "self-cocking"; as you press the release down, the lever motion first cocks the shutter and then releases it. The shutter release is not coupled to winding on these cameras, so it doesn't matter if there is film in it or not. The shutter opening should be visible (and you should hear a click), although I would recommend testing with the aperture fully open (3.5) so that it doesn't partially hide the shutter. Here is a video showing how it would work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYGUhQv11nY

Rick A · Nov 13, 2015

Open the camera back, hold it to a light, fire the shutter. If you see the light, it is functioning, if not, explore other mentioned methods.

trythis · Nov 13, 2015

AgX said:
There is a third way: cocking by pressing the release button.

The Prontor Press shutter does so.

Neat!

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anfenglin · Nov 13, 2015

Your shutter blades are most likely glued together by oil and greasy residue. Happens to a lot of old shutters. If you can, screw out the lens blocks or individual lenses and use lighter fluid applied to q-tips and clean the shutter blades. Fire the shutter a few times and repeat cleaning until all the oil and smear is gone. Use a fresh q-tip from time to time, otherwise you just smear the grime back in.

Hatchetman · Nov 13, 2015

I have a later Ciro-Flex and as I recall you have to cock it like any other shutter. I can check when I get home.

Peltigera · Nov 13, 2015

I believe the Alphax shutter blades are made from composite material that softens in naphtha. The photo I have seen of the Alphax shutter is clearly an everset shutter - no cocking.

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Perry B · Nov 13, 2015

Hatchetman said:
I have a later Ciro-Flex and as I recall you have to cock it like any other shutter. I can check when I get home.

There were two different shutter types on the Ciro-Flexes, the Rapax and the Alphax. The Rapax has a separate cocking lever, but the Alphax (which the original poster has) does not, and is self-cocking.

Hatchetman · Nov 13, 2015

OK. like a trigger on a gun. How does one use a release cable?

Perry B · Nov 13, 2015

I think that the cable pushes on the same mechanism. Here is a page that shows how to strip and clean the Alphax shutter: http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=alphax

shutterfinger · Nov 13, 2015

Press shutters are self cocking. Any make that has Press in the name is self cocking. After tripping the blades close and the mechanism is reset to the cocked state ready to trip again.
Alphax shutters use hard rubber shutter blades which lighter fluid will destroy.
Use Isopropyl Alcohol, 90% preferred.
If the blades just jiggle a little the shutter is malfunctioning and needs servicing. I doubt the blades are stuck but a lever inside is not moving properly.

MichiTimm · Nov 13, 2015

It's going back.
I was just checking to make sure it wasn't me before contacting the seller. So yeah, it's not anything I'm doing or haven't done and I have no interest at all in working on a camera that I just bought as "fully functional". I'll find one that works.

02Pilot · Nov 13, 2015

My Ciro-flex Model D had a Alphax shutter with metal blades; I can't say I've ever seen a leaf shutter that uses anything but metal blades.

In any case, it's a super-simple shutter to service. The front element of the lens just unscrews by hand, and you can them inspect the blades and clean as necessary. Mine were sticky when I got the camera, but a thorough cleaning with Ronsonol and powdered graphite got everything functioning perfectly.

shutterfinger · Nov 13, 2015

I do not know the time frame that Ilex Acme Alphax shutters used hard rubber blades but I have serviced several of them.
Best to check what you have before applying chemicals.

MichiTimm · Nov 19, 2015

Just to give this thread its proper conclusion ...

I sent the Ciro-flex back for a full refund, the seller agreed that it was not behaving as it should.

I now have another one, arrived last night. The shutter does not need to be cocked, and it does not need film in it to fire. Everything seems to be working fine on this one.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help.

AgX · Nov 19, 2015

MichiTimm said:
..., and it does not need film in it to fire.

Actually the contrary is a usefull feature to prevent coming home unintendedly without any photos.

Loren Sattler · Nov 21, 2015

Some old cameras need film loaded to fire the shutter.

pbromaghin · Nov 21, 2015

Our work here is done.

Question about just-received first TLR

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