Question about fog/haze

First of all, I want to apologize if I'm posting in the wrong forum. This is my first thread here, but I think I'm (hopefully) posting in the right sub-forum. I hope I turned off my antiblockers successfully too.

Little backstory: I got my hands on a Hasselblad 503cx during the summer of this year in gorgeous condition with all of the original boxes and instruction books from a man who owns a camera store where I live. He was actually planning on keeping it himself (the camera had belonged to his friend, who passed away unfortunately and have allegedly only taken 4 rolls of film) but was kind and sold it to me because he knew I had shot with Hasselblad's before and loved it (I studied photography between August of last year until June of this year where we had access to multiple 503cw's). Since I'm fairly young I didn't have the pocket money to purchase it, but my dad was kind enough and helped me pay for it. So now I'm a proud owner of a beautiful Hasselblad

Now, onto my question. I'm really dedicated to care for this camera as best as I possibly can, as it will surerly keep me company for the rest of my life. I've read the instruction book on how to care for it, watched some videos about fungus and how to avoid it, but fog/haze I'm still a bit unsure about. It's starting to get cold here in Sweden (it's around -10ºC but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes down to -20ºC and lower soon) which makes me a bit hesitant to take out my Hasselblad because I'm not sure how to properly care for it when I go back inside again. Maybe some of you here with a lot more knowledge about this could help me?

Basically, I'm wondering if I should keep my camera in my bag when I'm back inside and let it "get warm" in there or put it on my desk in "open air"? (My camera bag is a Hasselblad 712 if that's worth mentioning, which, according to a Hasselblad catalogue I own, is "damp and dust proof"). Any other advice on how to avoid fog and haze is very welcome, too.

Many, many thanks in advance!

Welcome to Apug!

If you you bring a camera out of the cold into a warm room, condensate may form on its outer surfaces. This should not be a problem at all and vanish in short time. Hardly conceivable would be condensate droplets merging and getting sucked into a slit where they can't evaporate again.

In case you nonetheless are worried, put your camera before entering into a camera bag, close it and let the whole thing get to temperature inside the room.

The basic idea is that warm air holds more moisture than cold air, so when warm interior air hits a cold object, moisture in the air will condense out.

Reduce the contact between the warm interior air and the cold object brought in from the exterior. The standard way to do this is to put the camera in a bag >before< going inside and let it sit inside long enough for the cold object to warm up before opening the bag.

I would suggest a truly sealed bag, not simply a camera bag. A stuff sack would probably be enough. If you have time, a stuff sack inside your camera bag will allow for a very gradual warming, maybe too gradual if you, say, want to get the film out of the back!

And then once the camera temperature has come up and it is removed from the sealed bag, let it sit in open air for a while to allow any residual moisture to evaporate.

AgX said:

Welcome to Apug!

If you you bring a camera out of the cold into a warm room, condensate may form on its outer surfaces. This should not be a problem at all and vanish in short time. Hardly conceivable would be condensate droplets merging and getting sucked into a slit where they can't evaporate again.

In case you nonetheless are worried, put your camera before entering into a camera bag, close it and let the whole thing get to temperature inside the room.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your reply! I realized now, that I managed to completely forget to mention I was talking about fog/haze inside the lens - since, if I understood it correctly, this can happen when your camera switches between temperature changes? Many thanks in advance again

Dan Daniel said:

The basic idea is that warm air an hold more moisture than cold air, so when warm interior air hits a cold object, moisture in the air will condense out.

Reduce the contact between the warm interior air and the cold object brought in from the exterior. The standard way to do this is to put the camera in a bag >before< going inside and let it sit inside long enough for the cold object to warm up before opening the bag.

I would suggest a truly sealed bag, not simply a camera bag. A stuff sack would probably be enough. If you have time, a stuff sack inside your camera bag will allow for a very gradual warming, maybe too gradual if you, say, want to get the film out of he back!

And then once the camera temperature has come up and it is removed from the sealed bag, let it sit in open air for a while to allow any residual moisture to evaporate.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! I think I understand what you mean by a sealed bag/stuff sack, I will look it up. Thank you again

bahidkw said:

I think I understand what you mean by a sealed bag/stuff sack, I will look it up. Thank you again

Click to expand...

'Stuff sack' is a common bag used for camping gear. Usually waterproofed nylon, with a drawstring closure. The reason I mentioned that kind of bag is because a common kitchen plastic bag with a seal system will often be very stiff when frozen after being crammed in the corner of a camera bag, that's all. You get the idea- no air ingress, that's the key.

Dan Daniel said:

'Stuff sack' is a common bag used for camping gear. Usually waterproofed nylon, with a drawstring closure. The reason I mentioned that kind of bag is because a common kitchen plastic bag with a seal system will often be very stiff when frozen after being crammed in the corner of a camera bag, that's all. You get the idea- no air ingress, that's the key.

Click to expand...

Perfect! Then I understood correctly what you meant. Many thanks again!

You shouldn't worry too much. Scandinavian weather isn't as bad as tropical or sub-tropical climate. I lived in Japan for 3 years and I had to buy a dry-cabinet to avoid fungus in my lenses during the wet season.
Now I live in Denmark and still use my dry cabinet, but mostly because it is a dust free environment - half of my equipment is stored outside the dry-cabinet and I have had no problem the past 10 years.
Anyway, when moving from cold to warm, condensation is likely to happen - if you wear glasses like I do, you will have experienced it every time you enter a shop or home during the winter.
In this case, best practice is to let your camera climatize in the bag before you take it out - in other words, leave the camera in the bag for the time it takes to approach indoor temperature - and don't worry too much if you take it out earlier - condensation will evaporate - heated Scandinavian indoor winter environment is normally low humidity and it will not affect the camera if left in the open to evaporate.

Unless you have an humidity controlled environment (like a dry-cabinet), you should keep the camera where it can "breathe". That means, leave it in a dust protected area where air can move around it (not cramped in a box or drawer or air proof space where humidity may have been trapped). A shelf in a regular cabinet is normally OK in Scandinavia - just make sure there is space for the air to move around the camera/lens.

Never keep the camera in leather bag/case. Never put the camera in an airtight container if you don't know the humidity of that container.
Take a look at your equipment once in a while, and send it to a camera tech if something looks suspicious - taking action earlier is always preferable - but don't worry too much - it is just a camera, not the crown jewels.

Nitroplait said:

You shouldn't worry too much. Scandinavian weather isn't as bad as tropical or sub-tropical climate. I lived in Japan for 3 years and I had to buy a dry-cabinet to avoid fungus in my lenses during the wet season.
Now I live in Denmark and still use my dry cabinet, but mostly because it is a dust free environment - half of my equipment is stored outside the dry-cabinet and I have had no problem the past 10 years.
Anyway, when moving from cold to warm, condensation is likely to happen - if you wear glasses like I do, you will have experienced it every time you enter a shop or home during the winter.
In this case, best practice is to let your camera climatize in the bag before you take it out - in other words, leave the camera in the bag for the time it takes to approach indoor temperature - and don't worry too much if you take it out earlier - condensation will evaporate - heated Scandinavian indoor winter environment is normally low humidity and it will not affect the camera if left in the open to evaporate.

Unless you have an humidity controlled environment (like a dry-cabinet), you should keep the camera where it can "breathe". That means, leave it in a dust protected area where air can move around it (not cramped in a box or drawer or air proof space where humidity may have been trapped). A shelf in a regular cabinet is normally OK in Scandinavia - just make sure there is space for the air to move around the camera/lens.

Never keep the camera in leather bag/case. Never put the camera in an airtight container if you don't know the humidity of that container.
Take a look at your equipment once in a while, and send it to a camera tech if something looks suspicious - taking action earlier is always preferable - but don't worry too much - it is just a camera, not the crown jewels.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your reply! I shoot outside 99% of the time, though I haven't done that now when the weather is colder because I wasn't sure how to properly care for the camera when it's cold and I'm going back in. I guess I might be a little too nervous but I really want to care for the camera as best as I can many thanks again for your explanation!

Just get a large zip lock freezer bag and put the camera in that before you go inside.

First ...










You have been given good advice above. I have been told by my Hasselblad repair man to do the following every three months: Remove the film back and fire all the lenses each ten to fifteen times at 1 second. That will avoid problems with shutters sticking and not working. Also the Hasselblad are designed to be stored in the cocked position. Always leave Hasselblad bodies and lenses cocked.

Patrick Robert James said:

Just get a large zip lock freezer bag and put the camera in that before you go inside.

Click to expand...

In Sweden they just call them bags.

bahidkw said:

Thank you very much for your reply! I realized now, that I managed to completely forget to mention I was talking about fog/haze inside the lens - since, if I understood it correctly, this can happen when your camera switches between temperature changes? Many thanks in advance again

Click to expand...

Fog/haze inside the lens is caused by lubricants evaporating.

Keep all your lenses, in the house, on a shelf, where the circulation of air gently moved over, behind, past them and, I suggest you remove lens caps, filters and covers from being tightly closed to being just loose enough to slowly exchange air with the air in circulation, lain side by side, in a secured position.

Closets, cabinets, boxes and outside walls or other damp interiors will ruin cameras over the long term, imo, so treat Thom like a collection of fine books, with good, dry or dehumidifier air movement and steady tempitures

A fine mesh laundry bag with a good zipper can keep a camera 'fresh' when the body caps and lenses are removed.every now and again, take lenses, set to infinity, wide open iris, to a table by a window, so the low Sunlight between 10am to 2pm can shine through the length of the lens and hopefully, if that window wasn't engineered to block UV light, the UV passing through the lens will kill mold and mildew and their spores.

Sometimes, putting lens vertically on piece of bright light or mirror mylar, at the open window threshold, at noon, will work well, just avoid dust, bugs, cats and strong winds.

Cheers

Only part of haze at lenses is made by fungus. To my impression the majority originates from non-water vapours, be they out of the camera or lens itself or from the outside. Worst I experienced them at average at S-8 cameras.

Like @AgX and @Huss said, fog and haze are caused by the condensation of vapourized lubricants inside the lens body. And the best way to avoid that is to not allow the lens to get very warm (for example, keeping it in a sealed car on a hot summer day is a bad idea). Also, some lubricants can break down in such a way that they naturally separate into a heavier sludge and a vapour.
Camera bags help breed fungus, since it likes the dark. Keeping the lenses in the light helps prevent it.
It's normal for some dust to end up inside a lens. It really has no impact. Fungus will eventually damage the lens glass itself so should be removed.

My Hasselblad lenses sit on a shelf with their end caps when not in use. Or in the lens case for the 30mm Fisheye and the 500mm lenses.

I recommend Eclipse lens cleaner for final clean-up of lenses/elements/groups, but hydrogen peroxide for fungus plus naphtha for general clean-up.

Get one or three Swiss watchmakers cats whisker oilers if using any oil products or solvent, to free-up lenses, filters or mechanical parts as the deliver minimum solutions or oils to a very specific area of your kit, when used intelligently.

This includes acetone, to break Loctite type glues.

These cost about $8 each but are worth every cent to no over deliver fluids in over abundance.

Have Fun!

Eli