Question about "f22 and be there..."

JohnRichard · Sep 14, 2009

So in two weeks, I will be shooting my cousins wedding. Now of course, she has a regular photographer that will do the regular stuff... But she likes a bit of the old fashioned. I told her I would bring my Speed Graphic and I might even ware a trench coat and hat.

So, I will be shooting indoors in a restaurant. I'm shooting HP5+, and I have number of #25B and #11 bulbs. Now, since I wasn't alive in the 50's, what is the best way to set up the camera so that I can use the rangefinder or wire guide.

I am very comfortable with judging distance, so perhaps setting the rail at 10' is good enough? Also, just to double check, when focusing using the scale, I should set the mark above infinity and 100 to whatever I want (like 10?)?

Thanks!

keithwms · Sep 14, 2009

First thing is to find out the hyperfocal distance of your lens at the various apertures. In fact, if you were a ~1950s press photographer with a speed or crown graphic, your camera might well be locked at that distance for f/8 or f/11 or such! Or at least those distances would be clearly marked on the bed...

Hp5+ will be fine, thought you really may want more speed, especially if you plan to stop down as much as f/22. Not knowing your light, I am guessing that f/22 just won't be possible unless you're up at ISO 1600 at least.... (unless you don't mind the deer-in-the-headlights, crime-scene-photo look from flash totally overpowering th ambient!) Why don't you go there and hand meter the light ahead of time. I bet you will want ISO 1600 and f/8 or such.

By the way, there is the fuji fp3000b 4x5 instant film, lots of fun that. It really is a 3000-speed product and the images are smooth and lovely. Other than that you may find you want a rollfilm back with neopan 1600 or delta 3200 or such. Anyway the fuji stuff is great fun with a press camera and you can actually enlarge the prints substantially if you rephotograph or scan them.

So... offhand I don't think ISO 400 is going to cut it. I have pushed hp to 800 and it's totally fine, but in that case I typically rate it at 640 and develop for 800.

JohnRichard · Sep 14, 2009

You know, that was my initial thought. Reading about shooting at f22 with iso250 or whatever they had just didn't make sense.

I have been reading about the instant 3000b from fuji, but I don't have anything that will hold that currently. I do have a Kodak film pack holder, but, that's useless.
I have no problem pushing the HP5+ to 1600. I like the idea of f8 too... I wonder how much depth I'll have with f8. Maybe I'll just use the rangefinder...

Denis K · Sep 14, 2009

JohnRichard said:
...and I might even ware a trench coat and hat.
Thanks!

If you wear a hat and want to make it look real authentic, get one with a hat band and stick one of those "Press" cards under the hat band so it sticks up for all to see. You'll look like such a hack!

Denis K

keithwms · Sep 14, 2009

What lens is it, a 127 or 135? If so you will be amazed how much DOF you can get even at f/8 or f/11 if you are at the hyperfocal distance. But f/22- fahgedaboudit!

For the fuji stuff you'd need a PA45 back, they are quite inexpensive on the used market.

Anscojohn · Sep 14, 2009

I once worked for a guy who said he would fire us if we took the camera off f/11.
The Nr. 11 bulbs probably shall not be a problem--I think they are very big, long-peak bulbs; but be sure to check to make sure your solenoid delay is right. If it were me, I would adjust it to the equivalent of "X" synch using a strobe rather than bulbs; then the Nr. 25 bulbs should be o.k. at, say, 1/25 second.

JohnRichard · Sep 14, 2009

keithwms said:
What lens is it, a 127 or 135? If so you will be amazed how much DOF you can get even at f/8 or f/11 if you are at the hyperfocal distance. But f/22- fahgedaboudit!

For the fuji stuff you'd need a PA45 back, they are quite inexpensive on the used market.

It's the Ektar 127. I think I'm going to go with f8, 1/25, #25b bulb, set the rail at the 15' mark. I think also that I will push the HP5+ to 800.

What was the general speed used back in the day?

keithwms · Sep 14, 2009

Well, I don't know for sure since I wasn't alive back in the day, but I guess 400 was considered fast But if you were not enlarging then you could get by... and press shots were barely enlarged if at all.

By the way most of my family lives in Lexington and Versailles. (olala, that's ver-SAILS Kentucky, for all you French speakers)

JohnRichard · Sep 14, 2009

YES! I still say "ver-sigh" because it makes people angry...

Mike Wilde · Sep 14, 2009

I remembered the quote as 'f/8 and be there'.

It balances speed- the ability to hand hold with a fast film and perhaps flash, and a nice balance of depth of field to keep the subject that you focus on as the sharpt part, separate from a lot of backgrounds.

I think it was originallly attributed to Weegee.

He shot 4x5, and they were ofent contact printed, so the bit out of focus if it happened it would not be magnified by enlargement.

keithwms · Sep 14, 2009

Greg Davis said:
You might as well go into Commonwealth Stadium and yell, "Go Louisville!" this Saturday at the game if you want a bunch of Kentuckians mad at you. And, no, there are no Louisville fans from Kentucky.

Well yeah, Louisville is, like, in Indiana or something.

eddym · Sep 14, 2009

It was "f11 @ 1/125 and be there."

Anscojohn · Sep 14, 2009

JohnRichard said:
It's the Ektar 127. I think I'm going to go with f8, 1/25, #25b bulb, set the rail at the 15' mark. I think also that I will push the HP5+ to 800.

What was the general speed used back in the day?

******
We shot, mostly, Super Pancro Press, Type B. It was ASA 125.

Anscojohn · Sep 14, 2009

Greg Davis said:
You might as well go into Commonwealth Stadium and yell, "Go Louisville!" this Saturday at the game if you want a bunch of Kentuckians mad at you. And, no, there are no Louisville fans from Kentucky.

*****

It's Loo vuhll

Anscojohn · Sep 14, 2009

Mike Wilde said:
I remembered the quote as 'f/8 and be there'.

It balances speed- the ability to hand hold with a fast film and perhaps flash, and a nice balance of depth of field to keep the subject that you focus on as the sharpt part, separate from a lot of backgrounds.

I think it was originallly attributed to Weegee.

He shot 4x5, and they were ofent contact printed, so the bit out of focus if it happened it would not be magnified by enlargement.

*******
Yes, it was Weegee who answered the question about his success: He responded "F/11 and bein' there." I expect he was not using dinky little Press 25 bayonet-type bulbs--screwin 22s, or whatever they were.

Anscojohn · Sep 14, 2009

eddym said:
It was "f11 @ 1/125 and be there."

*******
I think you will find that few, if any, shutters on the speedies of Weegee's period had a 1/125 shutter speed.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 14, 2009

JohnRichard said:
So in two weeks, I will be shooting my cousins wedding. Now of course, she has a regular photographer that will do the regular stuff... But she likes a bit of the old fashioned. I told her I would bring my Speed Graphic and I might even ware a trench coat and hat.

So, I will be shooting indoors in a restaurant. I'm shooting HP5+, and I have number of #25B and #11 bulbs. Now, since I wasn't alive in the 50's, what is the best way to set up the camera so that I can use the rangefinder or wire guide.

I am very comfortable with judging distance, so perhaps setting the rail at 10' is good enough? Also, just to double check, when focusing using the scale, I should set the mark above infinity and 100 to whatever I want (like 10?)?

Thanks!

I still have a recipe for controlling your flash exposure with magnesium powder. Sorry, that was 1850, you were probably talking about 1950, right?

Whiteymorange · Sep 14, 2009

There's a ver-sails Connecticut too.
And I have always heard the saying as "f8 and be there."

Colin Corneau · Sep 14, 2009

What would be interesting would be to use a Pocket Wizard or similar set-up on the Speed/Crown, synced to a bunch of strobes lighting up the whole room.

You could do the whole cigar-chomping thing and have a well lit room on a toasty big neg.

sun of sand · Sep 14, 2009

The larger than 5/25 flashbulbs ive used havent been so great/reliable
11's were less powerful than 25/5's ..dulled in time for whatever reason
even had a few duds while never having a single 25/5 fail
only a couple hundred bulbs, though.
My favorites are the M3s but I use em open flash

I'd be sure the 11's are putting out No11 light or else you're just losing space

JohnRichard · Sep 14, 2009

sun of sand said:
The larger than 5/25 flashbulbs ive used havent been so great/reliable
11's were less powerful than 25/5's ..dulled in time for whatever reason
even had a few duds while never having a single 25/5 fail
only a couple hundred bulbs, though.
My favorites are the M3s but I use em open flash

I'd be sure the 11's are putting out No11 light or else you're just losing space

Agreed. I have 8 No.25b's and since all I am shooting is 8 photographs, I'll go with that. There not as big as the No.11's either, so it's more pocket friendly.

Now, if I had like... 100 bulbs laying around, I would do a test with each and see which one I liked better... But, as I only have about 20 total...

BrianShaw · Sep 14, 2009

JohnRichard said:
I think I'm going to go with f8, 1/25, #25b bulb, set the rail at the 15' mark. I think also that I will push the HP5+ to 800.

You're more than likely going ot be disappointed unless you are shooting lanscapes with no appreciable foreground. Here's what my old Kodak flash bulb exposure guide (1977 Kodak Professional Photogiude, page 23 -- my "savior" for computing proper flash bulb exposure) says for those settings:

Effective guide number, with no shutter speed factor included = 800
Proper exposure at: 90 ft.

You have to remember that those bulbs are small but have a LOT of light in them.

Here are some settings from the photoguide to consider (at 400 ASA):
Effective GN = 500 (no shutter speed factor correction).
f/22 for shots where principal subject is 22 ft away (that ought to be easy to remember)
f/32 when principal subject is 16 ft away.
f/16 when subject is 31 ft away.
f/11 when (bla bla) is 45 ft away.

Personally speaking... I worry about properly lighting the principal subject and let the background fall however it falls. I also find slower film is always better for flash bulb photography.

If you really anticipate shooting a subject at 15', which is highly realistic at a wedding, you can do that at f/22 with 200 ASA film... or f/16 with 100... or f/11 with "WeeGee's special 50 ASA film".

BrianShaw · Sep 14, 2009

Oh... that also assumes a polished eep-bowl reflector, like the Graflex 5 inch.

BrianShaw · Sep 14, 2009

Ooops... I missed the fact that you'll be using 25b, not 25. You need to include a 1-stop penalty for the "blue" from what I said in post 24.

Chazzy · Sep 14, 2009

Whiteymorange said:
There's a ver-sails Connecticut too.
And I have always heard the saying as "f8 and be there."

So have I.

Question about "f22 and be there..."

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency