Question about 19" Apo Artar

sdivot · May 29, 2008

Hi,
In spite of trying to pare down my camera collection (see my classified ads), I recently bought a user 12x20 camera to do some studio stuff. I'm not up to taking this beast out in the field!
Today I received a 19" Apo Artar lens for the beast. There is the aperture adjustment ring of course, but there is also something that looks like it is for some sort of waterhouse stops. It opens up the side of the lens. Talk about light leaks! Better make sure that it's closed before making an exposure.
Question: What's it for? I don't know why you'd use waterhouse stops when you have the aperture ring/blades built in. Forgive my ignorance. Can anyone shed some light?
Steve

KenS · May 29, 2008

Apo Artar

sdivot said:
Hi,

Question: What's it for? I don't know why you'd use waterhouse stops when you have the aperture ring/blades built in. Forgive my ignorance. Can anyone shed some light?
Steve

Steve,
That lens was for a large 'process' camera. The red 'numbers are actually the diameter of the iris opening (in mm). The slot was/is used for the insertion of filters for graphic arts colour separations.

I just got my 'new to me' Apo-Artar mounted onto a 3/8 Baltic birch plywood lens-board for use on My Burke and James

Ken

matt miller · May 29, 2008

maybe it's for drop in filters?

Phil · May 29, 2008

Here are a couple of documents from the Schneider web site -

See page 6 for reference to the 'self-closing slot':

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/ar_apo_14_760.pdf

See page 2 for more info (not in English) and images of what I'm guessing are a 'gelatine filter' holder and a 'matte':

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/repro_claron.pdf

KenS · May 30, 2008

Apo Artar

Phil said:
Here are a couple of documents from the Schneider web site -
http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/pdf/repro_claron.pdf

Phil,

Interesting Schneider info. I am now going to assume that Apo Artar is the 'design/function' of the lens manufactured by two different manufacturers, since my lens is clearly engraved with "Rodenstock".

Ken

RobertP · May 30, 2008

I owned a 19" Artar some years ago and used it on an 8x10. I'm curious to hear if it covers 12x20 at infinity. I would imagine a 24" Artar would be a better choice for 12x20 or better yet a 30". My Korona 12x20 is limited by bellows (24") I use a 21 1/4" Kodak Ektanon which actually has more coverage than the 24" Artar ( and they usually come cheap). Also my 16 1/2" Dagor works beautifully on this camera and easily covers. Welcome to the world of ULF.

photo8x10 · May 30, 2008

I use a 19" Apo-Artar on my 8x20 camera it covers perfectlly.
Also for me a 24" could be a better choise..

Stefano

sdivot · May 30, 2008

Robert,
Well, I read somewhere (I think here) that the 19" Artar would cover 12x20. I hope it's correct information. I bought the lens on Ebay. It was pretty cheap, so I'm not out much if it doesn't cover.
I'm going to use the camera strictly for straight-on studio still life work, so I won't be trying any extreme movements. That should help.
I just recently had a major surgery but as soon as I'm given the go-ahead to lift more than 15 lbs, I'm going to start heaving the beast around! We'll see how it works....

I may eventually try to put the lens in a shutter. Film is so expensive, I'd like to take out as many guesswork type variables (1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, etc) as possible.

Thanks for all the replies,
Steve

Dave Wooten · May 30, 2008

Steve, I think the Artar 19 in will screw into the Ilex 4 ? Maybe you could get some feed back on that.

John Kasaian · Jun 1, 2008

Dave Wooten said:
Steve, I think the Artar 19 in will screw into the Ilex 4 ? Maybe you could get some feed back on that.

Not all Artars have the same threads/barrel diameter. I've owned three different barrel 19" Artars of different vintages and the flanges weren't interchangable on any of them. My current 19" RD Artar is in a #4 Ilex and it is a sweet lens on the 8x10!

If you want to cover 12x20 though a 450 Nikor "M" will do it. The 19" Artar would be iffy IMHO.

Which 12x20 do you have? Alas, my Folmer & Schwing dosen't have the bellows to handle a 24" Artar!

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 1, 2008

I believe the slot was also used for diamond-shaped apertures in making halftone screens. There are a few printing industry types around here who could explain exactly how this worked.

Deckled Edge · Jun 2, 2008

RobertP said:
I use a 21 1/4" Kodak Ektanon which actually has more coverage than the 24" Artar ( and they usually come cheap). Welcome to the world of ULF.

Geez, Robert, would you please hush up on the Ektanon, already?!? This is the world's sharpest lens, and up to now, the cheapest. People look at the humongous prism in the battleship mount and don't bid. If word gets out, the secret of 600 LPM sharpness will be known to all, and my reputation will suffer. I have the 16", 18-1/2" and 21-1/4" and they make my Apo Artars look like lomography.

RobertP · Jun 2, 2008

You know when I was first introduced to the 21 1/4" I thought...what the hell, I mounted it to a make-shift lens board and tried a couple of exposures with a lens cap on my 8x20. I was amazed at the sharpness and coverage. So when people asked why in the world would you spend all that money to mount a 100.00 lens into a shutter? I just chuckled and replied, I'm foolish I guess. I do own a 30" red dot Artar but that's because they didn't make a 30" Ektanon. I have no idea what the tech numbers for LPM of resolution are, but I can attest to what my eyes see. It was probably the best 100 bucks I ever spent.

Larry Bullis · Jun 2, 2008

Rodenstock?

KenS said:
Phil,

Interesting Schneider info. I am now going to assume that Apo Artar is the 'design/function' of the lens manufactured by two different manufacturers, since my lens is clearly engraved with "Rodenstock".

Ken

This is new to me. The Artar originally was made by Goerz, but I presume that the Apo version was made after Goerz American went under in 1972. I believe that Schneider ended up with the rights to the Goerz designs. They must have licensed it to Rodenstock.

Jim Fitzgerald · Jun 4, 2008

Yes, I too have the 21 1/4 " Ektanon for the 8x20. It is a great lens. Coupled with my 14" Gerogon I have two great lenses for this format at a fraction of the cost of an Artar. I did steal a mint Ilex 21 1/4" for the 11x14 and it is sharp as hell also. Now everyone go back to sleep and we never had this conversation....right!!!

Jim

ReallyBigCameras · Jun 4, 2008

KenS said:
Phil,

Interesting Schneider info. I am now going to assume that Apo Artar is the 'design/function' of the lens manufactured by two different manufacturers, since my lens is clearly engraved with "Rodenstock".

Ken

Ken,

Are you sure your APO Artar is a Rodenstock lens? If so, could you please post a pic? Artar was a trademark of Goerz. The Goerz assets were sold to Kollmorgen around 1970 or 1971 and subsequently to Schneider around 1972. Schneider continued to produce the APO Artar up until about 1989 or 1990.

I have never seen, or heard of (until now) a Rodenstock lens bearing the APO Artar name. It would be most unusual since first Goerz and then Schneider held the legal rights to this name - and they were both competitors of Rodenstock. Rodenstock had their own version of this lens type, but they called it the APO Ronar. Are you sure that's not what you have?

Kerry Thalmann
Really Big Cameras

RobertP · Jun 4, 2008

I've never seen a Rodenstock Apo Artar. Also the lens that I'm still kicking myself for selling, and would be a great lens for the 11x14 shooter, was the 14" blue dot Trigor. Mine was the American model not the Swiss Kern model. It covered my 8x20 with slight movements. But was way sharper than my old 1903 Dagor. It was sort of like.. covered like a Dagor but was sharp like an Artar. Of course the Trigor was a coated lens where as my Dagor isn't. Sorry, I didn't mean to get off topic. This has nothing to do with coverage on a 12x20. If the original poster wants to use the 19" Artar for close up stills in-studio then he just may have enough coverage to produce very sharp photos. But for using it as a landscape lens on a 12x20 at infinity, he may find that the corners will get pretty mushy even stopped down. It would be interesting to see the results in both situations. Artars are great lenses and if it doesn't meet your needs you'll have no problem recovering your investment. I hope it works out well for you. Also let me add that once you compose on these huge ground glasses you have entered the abyss of ULF for which there is no return.

KenS · Jun 4, 2008

ReallyBigCameras said:
Ken,

Rodenstock had their own version of this lens type, but they called it the APO Ronar. Are you sure that's not what you have?

Kerry Thalmann

Kerry...

You are correct. My lens was downstairs and I did not bother going down to have a peek. My lens IS an Apo-Ronar, definitely made my Rodenstock...not the "Apo Artar".

My apologies everyone

ken

bobherbst · Jun 4, 2008

19" Goerz Red Dot Artar Coverage for 12x20 Format

I can not speak for the coverage of a 19" Goerz APO Artar for 12x20 but I can speak for the Red Dot version of this lens. I have used this lens on my 12x20 many times and it is one of my standard lenses. Obvoiusly each individual lens will vary some, but my 19" red dot will cover 12x20 completely at infinity with some movement. HOWEVER, no matter how much you stop down the lens, the corners will not be sharp for an inch or so. BUT if you shoot at shorter distances than infinity, the image will be sharp corner to corner with movements. Attached below is an image shot with this lens in the vertical orientation at a distance of about 20 feet from the subject using about 2" of rise on the front standard. The image is sharp corner to corner even using a 7X eye loupe on the negative.

Bob Herbst

sdivot said:
Robert,
Well, I read somewhere (I think here) that the 19" Artar would cover 12x20. I hope it's correct information. I bought the lens on Ebay. It was pretty cheap, so I'm not out much if it doesn't cover.
I'm going to use the camera strictly for straight-on studio still life work, so I won't be trying any extreme movements. That should help.
I just recently had a major surgery but as soon as I'm given the go-ahead to lift more than 15 lbs, I'm going to start heaving the beast around! We'll see how it works....

I may eventually try to put the lens in a shutter. Film is so expensive, I'd like to take out as many guesswork type variables (1 mississippi, 2 mississippi, etc) as possible.

Thanks for all the replies,
Steve

epatsellis · Jun 4, 2008

19" Apo Artar, horrible lens, 21 1/4" Ektanon, even worse...

wait, I have mine already,

fantastic lenses, the 19" Artar will illuminate a 16x20, how well remains to be seen when I get my filmholders built.

erie

RobertP · Jun 4, 2008

Bob, Nice shot and great example. Now I wish I hadn't sold mine.

Question about 19" Apo Artar

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