Quantum Physics

cliveh · Jan 31, 2015

Does quantum physics play any role in film photography?

pentaxuser · Jan 31, 2015

Well, not in the Gallery, I feel. I have seen many good shots of cats there but none matches up to Schroedinger's

I apologise if this thread is serious

pentaxuser

whlogan · Jan 31, 2015

Yes, I think it does. Light jumps from one quantum level of response to another without hitting some of the levels in between. If we had eyes like cats do we could see these levels, but, alas we do not have those response activators so we miss those levels but some of us fill in those shades of gray we are missing and I think our brains do fill them in for us after a while. The zone system jumps from one level to another, missing the levels in between which most surely are there and we mostly miss them. some do; some don't and I suspect that accounts for those who truly prefer B&W over color, like me. Its a hard thing to prove and harder to see and is not easily explained to anyone and I was afraid that one day it would come up. The mathematics would frighten most PhD candidates.but there they are anyhow. Have fun with this one!

Logan

RobC · Jan 31, 2015

cliveh said:
Does quantum physics play any role in film photography?

I tell you what, If you can explain in laymans english what quantum physics is, then I'll tell you if it has any role in photography.

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
In layman terms when people say quantum-(insert field etc.) they are generally referring to things happening at the atomic/subatomic level. The simple answer is yes, quantum physics plays a role in film photography. However these are really things which, given the current "wiring" of the human brain, can only be described with abstract mathematics. It is a mistake to try to visualize these things.

Yes

but you are not required understand it.

snapguy · Jan 31, 2015

The Intransigence of Mechanical Objects (machines are out to get us) is more important.

gzinsel · Jan 31, 2015

I alway thought, that light could be understood as a wave or a particle? I thought thats what quantum meant. That either/or is . . . . . .somehow displacing the other. . . . . .

gzinsel · Jan 31, 2015

oh wait . . . . snap guy, IMO------ (in my opinion)- should now be understood as Intransigence of Mechanical Objects. so every time someone writes. . . . IMO the bla, bla, bla. . . . . . I know now WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN

ME Super · Jan 31, 2015

gzinsel said:
I alway thought, that light could be understood as a wave or a particle? I thought thats what quantum meant. That either/or is . . . . . .somehow displacing the other. . . . . .

That would be the dual nature (wave-particle duality) of light. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

RobC · Jan 31, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
In layman terms when people say quantum-(insert field etc.) they are generally referring to things happening at the atomic/subatomic level. The simple answer is yes, quantum physics plays a role in film photography. However these are really things which, given the current "wiring" of the human brain, can only be described with abstract mathematics. It is a mistake to try to visualize these things.

All my photographs are abstractions from the electromagnetic field that fills space. I don't have any problems with conceptualising that in my mind.
So why shouldn't I be able to conceptualise quantum physics if a physicist was capable of saying it in laymans english. The argument that anything can only be explained through mathematics is just a limitation of the physicists saying it. Anything can be explained using simple language but that doesn't mean everyone will understand it.

Here you go, some bed time reading for anyone interested. See, when someone can be bothered its perfectly feasible...

http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/the-higgs-particle/the-higgs-faq-2-0/

benjiboy · Jan 31, 2015

cliveh said:
Does quantum physics play any role in film photography?

I dunno, Where do all the flies go in Winter ?

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2015

snapguy said:
The Intransigence of Mechanical Objects (machines are out to get us) is more important.

COROLLARY: There are no personal computers. They are impersonal and they are out to get us. They will destroy the most import files and records in the most personally destructive method at the points in our lives when we can least deal with is nor defend against it.

benjiboy · Jan 31, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
COROLLARY: There are no personal computers. They are impersonal and they are out to get us. They will destroy the most import files and records in the most personally destructive method at the points in our lives when we can least deal with is nor defend against it.

You sound like like Woody Allen Steve, who in one of his routines is convinced that all machines are out to get him.

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2015

benjiboy said:
You sound like like Woody Allen Steve, who in one of his routines is convinced that all machines are out to get him.

One should not need convincing since they really are out to get us.

RobC · Jan 31, 2015

If you are right then that means the scientists can't possibly know/understand what they are doing

Photo Engineer · Jan 31, 2015

Here and now, QED has two meanings!

wy2l · Jan 31, 2015

I am able to understand physics up the the point Newton died.

blansky · Jan 31, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
One should not need convincing since they really are out to get us.

Especially the orgasmatron.

Nodda Duma · Jan 31, 2015

Quantum physics is at the heart of describing optical effects that use photonic wave theory. Diffraction, diffractive surfaces, interferometry, even anti-reflection coatings, etc..

All related to photographic optics to some extent or another and so yes quantum physics does play a role in film photography.

Holograms of laser-illuminated objects recorded on film pop into mind as relying heavily on quantum effects.

Btw quantum effects are not difficult to visualize and/or understand. You just have to get past the math and into the practical application of the theory. Like anything else, experience is the best teacher.

alanrockwood · Jan 31, 2015

RobC said:
I tell you what, If you can explain in laymans english what quantum physics is, then I'll tell you if it has any role in photography.

It was supposedly said by a famous physicist (or was it a famous mathematician?) that you never understand quantum physics, you just get used to it.

Sirius Glass · Jan 31, 2015

So is the cat alive or dead?

Theo Sulphate · Jan 31, 2015

A very enjoyable, understandable, but serious book on Quantum Physics is "Schrödinger's Kittens and the Search for Reality" by John Gribbin.

The newer version has a photo of cats on the cover.

alanrockwood · Jan 31, 2015

Actually, to answer the original question, quantum mechanics has everything to do with photography at the most fundamental level. The laws of quantum mechanics govern the physics and chemistry of silver halide crystal structure, the defects that occur within the structure, the energy levels within the crystal (primarily electronic and vibrational energy), the interaction of light with the silver halide structure, and the conversion of the crystal into silver by way of the chemistry of the development process.

And that is just for starters.

Theo Sulphate · Jan 31, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
So is the cat alive or dead?

Yes.

Francesco_from_Rome · Jan 31, 2015

cliveh said:
Does quantum physics play any role in film photography?

I read the question as "does the fundamental insight of quantization plays any role in the processes which govern film photography (and our description/comprehension), or is a classical, continuum based, picture enough?"

I would say, yes it plays a role.

Until the first decades of XX century, well after the development by trials and sometimes dangerous experimentations, Mott and Gurney provided the first satisfying model of the interaction of the light with the silver halides. Such a model is essentially quantistic since it requires to model the interaction of a single photon with a crystal structure. By doing the computations one becomes able to understand the sensitivity of the emulsion and the reciprocity failures.

Some links, hopefully readable enough:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_image

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevill_Francis_Mott

On a different level, the concept of light temperature and the features of light spectra actually are the way that we discovered quantum physics.

These are just a couple of instances which came to my mind, I am sure there are others.

Does knowing this enables one to get better pictures? I would be really glad if that were the case

Francesco

Quantum Physics

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