QTR profile for Epson 2200 and pure Pd

clay · Jul 8, 2007

I have been using the 7800 for all of my own work for the last few months, but I am preparing to teach a workshop in August where we will be using Epson 2200 printers. I spent the day creating the same type of profile I have been using successfully on the 7800. It uses mostly black and light black, but adds a little color at the highlight end with the yellow ink to boost the UV density slightly, and a little cyan and little magenta to enhance smoothness.

This profile is a good illustration of a point we were discussing last week about the maximum density needed to print pure Pd with no restrainer. You will see that the 100% negative value (0% white on the print) checks in at UV logD of 2.97! And I have also added some visible and measurable density as low as 2% negative value (98% on the print). I used the same target print densities that I linearized in the 7800 profile, and then eyeballed in some tweaks. This profile, for me, in my conditions, prints a 50 step tablet that mimics the look I have on my calibrated monitors. I hope it does for you.

To use this profile , follow all of instructions that Ron Reeder has so generously loaded onto his website for using QTR. Put this profile in the 2200-Create-profile folder, and run the script to add it to the 2200 profiles. Edit your file in Photoshop, invert to a negative (command-i on the mac) and then flip the image horizontally. Pick the QTR2200 printer in your print dialog, , choose this profile as your #1 ink profile, then choose 2800 dpi and uni-directional, and if you feel like it, you can click the advanced mode and choose adaptive-hybrid dither. Note that you do not have to add a curve to your file. It is built into the driver, in 16bit mode, no less.

Print it on Pictorico and then print the negative with no restrainer. You may find that you need some extra print time with this profile, because I have intentionally added some negative density in the shadows that is not present when using some other methods. IOW, your minimum time for maximum black may not quite be enough. A test strip may save you some time here.

Good luck. I hope this is useful.

P.S. The attachment manager here will not let me upload a file with the extension .qidf on it. This is a .qidf file that has had the extension manually changed to .txt. After you download it, you will need to change it back to UC2200Pd.qidf!

donbga · Jul 8, 2007

clay said:
I have been using the 7800 for all of my own work for the last few months, but I am preparing to teach a workshop in August where we will be using Epson 2200 printers. I spent the day creating the same type of profile I have been using successfully on the 7800. It uses mostly black and light black, but adds a little color at the highlight end with the yellow ink to boost the UV density slightly, and a little cyan and little magenta to enhance smoothness.

This profile is a good illustration of a point we were discussing last week about the maximum density needed to print pure Pd with no restrainer. You will see that the 100% negative value (0% white on the print) checks in at UV logD of 2.97! And I have also added some visible and measurable density as low as 2% negative value (98% on the print). I used the same target print densities that I linearized in the 7800 profile, and then eyeballed in some tweaks. This profile, for me, in my conditions, prints a 50 step tablet that mimics the look I have on my calibrated monitors. I hope it does for you.

To use this profile , follow all of instructions that Ron Reeder has so generously loaded onto his website for using QTR. Put this profile in the 2200-Create-profile folder, and run the script to add it to the 2200 profiles. Edit your file in Photoshop, invert to a negative (command-i on the mac) and then flip the image horizontally. Pick the QTR2200 printer in your print dialog, , choose this profile as your #1 ink profile, then choose 2800 dpi and uni-directional, and if you feel like it, you can click the advanced mode and choose adaptive-hybrid dither. Note that you do not have to add a curve to your file. It is built into the driver, in 16bit mode, no less.

Print it on Pictorico and then print the negative with no restrainer. You may find that you need some extra print time with this profile, because I have intentionally added some negative density in the shadows that is not present when using some other methods. IOW, your minimum time for maximum black may not quite be enough. A test strip may save you some time here.

Good luck. I hope this is useful.

P.S. The attachment manager here will not let me upload a file with the extension .qidf on it. This is a .qidf file that has had the extension manually changed to .txt. After you download it, you will need to change it back to UC2200Pd.qidf!

Don

donbga · Jul 8, 2007

Wow! Thanks Clay I can't wait to try this one out!!
Or at the very least look at the file contents!

Don Bryant

donbga · Jul 8, 2007

clay said:
I have been using the 7800 for all of my own work for the last few months, but I am preparing to teach a workshop in August where we will be using Epson 2200 printers. I spent the day creating the same type of profile I have been using successfully on the 7800. It uses mostly black and light black, but adds a little color at the highlight end with the yellow ink to boost the UV density slightly, and a little cyan and little magenta to enhance smoothness.

This profile is a good illustration of a point we were discussing last week about the maximum density needed to print pure Pd with no restrainer. You will see that the 100% negative value (0% white on the print) checks in at UV logD of 2.97! And I have also added some visible and measurable density as low as 2% negative value (98% on the print). I used the same target print densities that I linearized in the 7800 profile, and then eyeballed in some tweaks. This profile, for me, in my conditions, prints a 50 step tablet that mimics the look I have on my calibrated monitors. I hope it does for you.

To use this profile , follow all of instructions that Ron Reeder has so generously loaded onto his website for using QTR. Put this profile in the 2200-Create-profile folder, and run the script to add it to the 2200 profiles. Edit your file in Photoshop, invert to a negative (command-i on the mac) and then flip the image horizontally. Pick the QTR2200 printer in your print dialog, , choose this profile as your #1 ink profile, then choose 2800 dpi and uni-directional, and if you feel like it, you can click the advanced mode and choose adaptive-hybrid dither. Note that you do not have to add a curve to your file. It is built into the driver, in 16bit mode, no less.

Print it on Pictorico and then print the negative with no restrainer. You may find that you need some extra print time with this profile, because I have intentionally added some negative density in the shadows that is not present when using some other methods. IOW, your minimum time for maximum black may not quite be enough. A test strip may save you some time here.

Good luck. I hope this is useful.

P.S. The attachment manager here will not let me upload a file with the extension .qidf on it. This is a .qidf file that has had the extension manually changed to .txt. After you download it, you will need to change it back to UC2200Pd.qidf!

I think I should mention for PC users that Clay's instructions are specifically for the Mac version of QTR. Ron may have mentioned that in his new article on his web page but I've not yet read that.

Don

clay · Jul 8, 2007

Actually, the ink definition file will work on either Mac or Windows. In fact, I used Parallels on my Mac to run QTRgui under Windows XP professional to create this profile. I then 'transferred' the .qidf file to my mac for printing. To run this on a Windows machine, just rename the file as noted, and then pick Tools->Curve Creation to get the curve dialog box. Choose File->Open in this dialog box, and there it is. You can press the "Show Curve" button to see what the inks are doing. To use this curve, save it in the UC2200 folder. The path for saving this file on my windows 'system' is C:\Program Files\QuadToneRIP\Profiles\2200-UC

Don Bryant said:
I think I should mention for PC users that Clay's instructions are specifically for the Mac version of QTR. Ron may have mentioned that in his new article on his web page but I've not yet read that.

Don

donbga · Jul 9, 2007

clay said:
Actually, the ink definition file will work on either Mac or Windows. In fact, I used Parallels on my Mac to run QTRgui under Windows XP professional to create this profile. I then 'transferred' the .qidf file to my mac for printing. To run this on a Windows machine, just rename the file as noted, and then pick Tools->Curve Creation to get the curve dialog box. Choose File->Open in this dialog box, and there it is. You can press the "Show Curve" button to see what the inks are doing. To use this curve, save it in the UC2200 folder. The path for saving this file on my windows 'system' is C:\Program Files\QuadToneRIP\Profiles\2200-UC

Yes you are correct. The point I was trying to make is that PC users don't run a create script to install the profile, instead they should use QTRGui Create Curves tool as you mention. PC users familiar with QTR will probably know what to do but those new to the software may find things a little confusing at first. I know I did.

Anywy, thanks for sharing this Clay.

Don

Ike · Jul 9, 2007

Thanks Clay! I can probably use this as a starting point for my 7600 if I ever get crazy enough to try negs that large.
Ike

sanking · Jul 9, 2007

Clay,

Thanks for posting the QTR file. I am going to give it a try as soon as possible. It will be interesting to compare your QTR file with the Epson inks to my results on the Epsons 2200 with Piezography and the K7 ink set, using the same printer.

Ron and I discussed a similar comparison project and I spent part of yesterday trying to carry out the tests, but I am thinking that the best comparison would be one made with the two systems using the same printer.

Have you actually made a print to determine if your QTR eliminates the venetian blind problem with the 2200?

And BTW, what is your exposure with the ULF-28 for pure palladium? And what paper is your profile based on, or did you mention that?

Sandy

clay · Jul 9, 2007

Yes, I made some prints with smooth highlight gradients to fine tune the profile. The answer is: the blinds are still there to a tiny degree, but are only visible on the print if you examine with a loupe. They are not visible at ordinary print-sniffer distances (Nose approximately 6 inches from print).

So, roller blinds are improved greatly, but not totally cured.

Here is my theory (for the moment) : Because I am printing with no restrainer, there is just naturally going to be less highlight contrast in the print that would exacerbate the effect. The negatives themselves are noticeably less banded, even when examined with a 10X loupe.

Another aside: When I was trying to come up with the ink limits for the black and yellow combinations, I loaded one test with about 60% of each color. The UV logD of this combination on the 361T was 4.75! Anybody doing salt prints? This would be the killer approach for making a profile for that process.

sanking said:
Clay,

Thanks for posting the QTR file. I am going to give it a try as soon as possible. It will be interesting to compare your QTR file with the Epson inks to my results on the Epsons 2200 with Piezography and the K7 ink set, using the same printer.

Ron and I discussed a similar comparison project and I spent part of yesterday trying to carry out the tests, but I am thinking that the best comparison would be one made with the two systems using the same printer.

Have you actually made a print to determine if your QTR eliminates the venetian blind problem with the 2200?

Sandy

seans · Jul 9, 2007

clay said:
It uses mostly black and light black, but adds a little color at the highlight end with the yellow ink to boost the UV density slightly, and a little cyan and little magenta to enhance smoothness.

Clay - thank you for posting. I hope a few questions are ok to understand the profile.

1. When I opened yur profile I saw the default ink limit is 60 but there are individual ink limits on all the inks - so is it correct that the 60 is not affecting any ink?

2. You have some attributes in there that I do not read about in Ron's guide - specifically "overlap" and "toner" - could you explain these please.

3. I have noticed in other 2200 curves that the default ink values are high - 60 or 70 - yet on my 2200 that always smeared. I have a good curve that uses a default of 20 and then boost inks at one end of the curve or the other to get separation in the light or dark end of the print.
Here are my numbers and I have an image posted in the gallery of my first image with this curve. I would appreciate any comments.

# QuadToneRIP curve descriptor file
#
# for 2200 with matte black and ultrachrome inks

PRINTER=Quad2200
CALIBRATION=NO
GRAPH_CURVE=YES

#
# number of inks must be 4, 6, or 7
# the ink limits are percentages
# usually they are all the same but they can be individually set
#
N_OF_INKS=7
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=20

LIMIT_K=
BOOST_K=37
LIMIT_C=
LIMIT_M=
LIMIT_Y=
LIMIT_LC=40
LIMIT_LM=40
LIMIT_LK=40

#
# Describe Usage of each Ink: K,C,M,Y,LC,LM,LK
# All Inks of Printer must be listed
#

#
# Gray Partitioning Information
#
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=2
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=LK
GRAY_VAL_2=28.5

GRAY_INK_3=
GRAY_VAL_3=

GRAY_INK_4=
GRAY_VAL_4=

GRAY_INK_5=
GRAY_VAL_5=

GRAY_INK_6=
GRAY_VAL_6=

GRAY_INK_7=
GRAY_VAL_7=

GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=0
GRAY_SHADOW=0

GRAY_GAMMA=1.0
GRAY_CURVE="0;0 2;5 4;8 23;30 39;51 60;71 77;85 83;90 90;96 96;99 100;100"

This yields a UV density of 2.95 as measured with a calibrated xrite 361

Thank you again for posting your curve and allowing me to learn from it.
Sean

clay · Jul 9, 2007

First, a lot of that text file is not really being used. The windows QTRgui just generates a text file with every possible option ready to go.

None of my inks come close to the default ink limit. With the 2200, anything even close to the limit would give me bulletproof negatives.

Here is the profile generated by QTRgui with some notes:

PRINTER=Quad2200
CURVE_NAME=2200testcrv6
GRAPH_CURVE=YES
N_OF_INKS=7
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=60 <<==== not really relevant for this profile
BOOST_K=40 <<== my understanding is that this boosts the contrast in the densest parts of the negative
LIMIT_K=30 <<==== maximum black ink percentage allowed at 100% (i.e. highlights) plus the boost
LIMIT_C=4 <<=== nominal amount just to give the dither algorithm something to do
LIMIT_M=3 <<=== ditto. These colors do not block a lot of UV. I tried to use primarily two colors: black and yellow for most of the heavy lifting, since their UV densities are in the same ballpark
LIMIT_Y=10 <<=== yellow is added at the very end, 70% and higher, and then no more than 10% total ink
LIMIT_LC=4 <<== same thing as "C ink" above, only it tracks with the Light Black (LK) ink instead of the K
LIMIT_LM=3 <<== ditto
LIMIT_LK=40 <<== maximum allowed load of LK ink
N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=2
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=LK
GRAY_VAL_2=35 <<== LK ink at 100% has same UV density as K at 35% (roughly) so the RIP starts adding K at this point to compensate
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=0
GRAY_SHADOW=0
GRAY_OVERLAP=
GRAY_GAMMA=1 <<== Ron says this works, and by golly it does.
GRAY_CURVE="0;2 4;7 11;13 20;19 30;24 40;29 50;36 60;42 70;50 80;60 85;68 90;75 96;90 97;93 98;95.5 99;97 100;98" <<== This is the built-in linearization curve YAY! No curves in photoshop
N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0 <<== not used
TONER_HIGHLIGHT=10 <<== not used
TONER_SHADOW=10 <<== not used
TONER_GAMMA=1 <<== not used
TONER_CURVE= <<== not used
N_OF_TONER_2_PARTS=0 <<== not used
TONER_2_HIGHLIGHT=10 <<== not used
TONER_2_SHADOW=10 <<== not used
TONER_2_GAMMA=1 <<== not used
TONER_2_CURVE= <<== not used
N_OF_UNUSED=0 <<== not used
COPY_CURVE_C=K <<== C curve tracks black, subject to its ink limit
COPY_CURVE_M=K <<== M curves tracks black, subject to its ink limit
COPY_CURVE_Y=K <<== Y curves tracks black, subject to its ink limit
COPY_CURVE_LC=LK <<== LC curves tracks light black, subject to its ink limit
COPY_CURVE_LM=LK <<== LM curves tracks light black, subject to its ink limit

At least, that is my understanding of this thing. It works, whatever...

Ron-san · Jul 10, 2007

clay said:
Here is the profile generated by QTRgui with some notes:

At least, that is my understanding of this thing. It works, whatever...

Clay-- Thanks for the 2200 profile. My only comment is why not keep the Y and K ink limits about the same and raise and lower them in concert to adjust negative contrast? Seems this approach would "fill in the holes" around the K ink dots better than keeping the Y ink to 1/4 of the K ink. But that is just a quibble.

If you have a good profile for the 7800, would you mind posting that also? Several people have asked me for one and I do not have access to a 7800 printer in order to make one.

One final thing. One of the things about QTR that drives me nuts is that different functions for these profiles keep popping up that I have never seen and have no idea what they do nor where there is any documentation for them. For example, what is GRAY_OVERLAP?? What does it do. Is there a use for it? I love the control that QTR gives one, but the lack of documentation can drive one slightly batty.

Keep up the good work. Will you by any chance be at APIS this summer?

Cheers, Ron-san

clay · Jul 10, 2007

The fact is, I don't know exactly why I decided on using only a fraction of the yellow ink - I just knew I needed some, so I think I must have taken the approach of adding just enough to knock the dmax up to 3.0 or so. Sort of makes the negatives look like pyrocat negatives, which helps maintain that illusion of 'process purity' when I am printing.

And there ARE some weird options that pop up in that file that QTRgui generates. I do like building the curve on the windows version because I get nice visual feedback about the smoothness of the ink transitions that the mac version doesn't really have. I did some tweaking of parameter based on that feedback. For instance, I tried to get a lot of inkload on the print very early on in the game with the LK inks. The QTRgui feedback helped me there.

I hope people find this profile useful, and at the very least, a good starting point for their own work.

Ron-san said:
Clay-- Thanks for the 2200 profile. My only comment is why not keep the Y and K ink limits about the same and raise and lower them in concert to adjust negative contrast? Seems this approach would "fill in the holes" around the K ink dots better than keeping the Y ink to 1/4 of the K ink. But that is just a quibble.

If you have a good profile for the 7800, would you mind posting that also? Several people have asked me for one and I do not have access to a 7800 printer in order to make one.

One final thing. One of the things about QTR that drives me nuts is that different functions for these profiles keep popping up that I have never seen and have no idea what they do nor where there is any documentation for them. For example, what is GRAY_OVERLAP?? What does it do. Is there a use for it? I love the control that QTR gives one, but the lack of documentation can drive one slightly batty.

Keep up the good work. Will you by any chance be at APIS this summer?

Cheers, Ron-san

donbga · Jul 10, 2007

GRAY OVERLAP

Ron-san said:
One final thing. One of the things about QTR that drives me nuts is that different functions for these profiles keep popping up that I have never seen and have no idea what they do nor where there is any documentation for them. For example, what is GRAY_OVERLAP?? What does it do. Is there a use for it? I love the control that QTR gives one, but the lack of documentation can drive one slightly batty.

Cheers, Ron-san

Hi Ron
From the QTR user manual:

Snip %<----------------------------------------------
I noticed that even with Black Boost=100, the 100% black patch has little
white flecks in it. Under an enlarged scan there were little intermittent lines
(horizontal lines so not pizza wheel tracks). For cases like this where the
Black ink, even at 100% does not fully cover the paper, one can specify a
Gray Overlap percentage on the Gray Curve panel. This variable forces
QuadToneRIP to put out more ink overall and to finish with this percentage
of the darkest gray overlapping with the maximum amount of black. So in
our example I specified Black Boost of 100% and if I specified Gray Overlap
of 15%, the 100% black patch would be printed with 100% Black ink plus
15% Light Black. You must be careful here, since the darkest gray is lighter
than the black, too much Gray Overlap might actually reduce dMax. This is
another area where experimentation is required.
Snip %<----------------------------------------------

So it appears or seems that in terms of a producing a digital negative Gray OVERLAP could be used to control hightlight gradations in the print - or something like that.

Seems as though there may be many ways to skin the cat with QTR.

Best,

Don Bryant

clay · Jul 10, 2007

Sweeeet. I can see how this might be very useful. I'll check it out and see if there is any benefit. Thanks!

Don Bryant said:
Hi Ron
From the QTR user manual:

Snip %<----------------------------------------------
I noticed that even with Black Boost=100, the 100% black patch has little
white flecks in it. Under an enlarged scan there were little intermittent lines
(horizontal lines so not pizza wheel tracks). For cases like this where the
Black ink, even at 100% does not fully cover the paper, one can specify a
Gray Overlap percentage on the Gray Curve panel. This variable forces
QuadToneRIP to put out more ink overall and to finish with this percentage
of the darkest gray overlapping with the maximum amount of black. So in
our example I specified Black Boost of 100% and if I specified Gray Overlap
of 15%, the 100% black patch would be printed with 100% Black ink plus
15% Light Black. You must be careful here, since the darkest gray is lighter
than the black, too much Gray Overlap might actually reduce dMax. This is
another area where experimentation is required.
Snip %<----------------------------------------------

So it appears or seems that in terms of a producing a digital negative Gray OVERLAP could be used to control hightlight gradations in the print - or something like that.

Seems as though there may be many ways to skin the cat with QTR.

Best,

Don Bryant

mkochsch · Jul 10, 2007

Off topic: QTR Tutorial

Why don't one of you resident QTR whizzes (read: Cl-a-a-a-y) give us a 12 step guide to using the program in CcMmYKk mode? I spent the better part of two weeks hacking my way through it last year (before giving up because of quality issues) and have subsequently completely forgotten most of it. Just fiddling with it now reminded me I learned more about QTR by reading the Bowhaus Inkjet Control users manual. Ha! I wish it weren't true. Has support for 5760 DPI printers been added yet?

sanking · Jul 12, 2007

I downloaded and installed Clay's palladium profile for QTR. It was very simple. I just dropped the file directly into the Epson 2200 profile folder and ran the installation script. The only complication was that I had to change the name for the installation to work from UC2200Pd.qidf to UC-2200Pd. When I tried to install it with the name Clay gave the program indicated "illegal file name".

In order to print a file I had to first pull the Piezography K7 ink set from the 2200 and re-install the Epson cartridges. I did this, ran two cleaning cycles as recommended by Cone, and then made a 5X7 negative with the Quad2200 using Clay's profile and the QTR settings of 2880 dpi and uni-directional. Printing was quite long, but no longer than with the Piezography setting.

The negative looks a lot like my pyro stained negative and to my eye looks like it should print well, and I plan to make a test print from the 5X7 negative this afternoon. Visually it appears much more like an in-camera negative than the colored negatives, and for that reason, easier to read and evaluate. Or at least that is my impression.

I also checked the Dmax on the blocking frame I put around my negatives to permit easy measurement of maximum UV blocking density. Curiously, that turned out to be only about 2.4, so I am wondering about my printer set-up. I followed Clay's set-up instructions to the letter so far as I know. The only possible discrepancy I see is that I had the Source Space for the document set to Gray Gamma 2.2. Should it be Gray Gamma 1.8, or something else?

In any event, working with QTR in this limited way, i.e. installing the program and profiles, is very simple. Writing the profiles is a different matter, but if we can get nice folks like Clay to continue to do that for us, well QTR could have a big future in digital negatives with the masses.

Sandy

UC2200Pd.qidf

sanking · Jul 12, 2007

OK, I made a print with Clay's QTR profile. Great first print. Very exciting to be able to go directly from the screen to a print just by inverting the negative and choosing a profile.

For economy and easy of processing for the first print I used vandyke, which has a similar ES to pure palladium. I got excellent tonal range, all the way from the shadows to the highlights, and the mid-tones look snappy also. Used the Weston prachement paper.

This is good news for me since, as I mentioned in another thread, I have a fairly large amount of custom cut PhotoWarehouse OHP that works fine iwth the UC ink set of the 2200. So this, plus the stampeding bulls on Wall Street, has really made my day.

Sandy King

Bruce · Jul 12, 2007

PhotoWarehouse OHP Question

sanking said:
OK, I made a print with Clay's QTR profile. Great first print. Very exciting to be able to go directly from the screen to a print just by inverting the negative and choosing a profile.

For economy and easy of processing for the first print I used vandyke, which has a similar ES to pure palladium. I got excellent tonal range, all the way from the shadows to the highlights, and the mid-tones look snappy also. Used the Weston prachement paper.

This is good news for me since, as I mentioned in another thread, I have a fairly large amount of custom cut PhotoWarehouse OHP that works fine iwth the UC ink set of the 2200. So this, plus the stampeding bulls on Wall Street, has really made my day.

Sandy King

Sandy

Is the PhotoWarehouse OHP the same thing as their Ultrafine Injet Clear Film Transparancy material?

When I tried it (Ultrafine Injet Clear Film Transparancy) before it curled badly in the Epson 2200 printer and almost destoyed my printer.

How do you send it though you Epson 2200? Do you feed it from the top or back of the printer? Do you tape it down to a piece of paper to get rid of the curl? If you tape it how do you do it?

I would like to use the Ultrafine material for some gum negatives but I sure dont want to damage my printer again.

Any guidance woudd be appreciated.

Thanks!!

Bruce

clay · Jul 12, 2007

I'm glad to hear it is working for you. I am still a little stumped about the the UV density you are measuring. I got a 2.97 with my 361T. I wonder if it has something to do with the different densitometers we are using. In any case, it sounds like it works in more than one darkroom, which is always a relief! I was pretty happy with the couple of prints I made with this profile, and it looks perfect for me in a workshop setting, since I don't have to worry about anybody applying the curve or colorizing or whatever in the wrong order. I'm sure I will still have some prints that are not flipped horizontally, though. I wish there was a check box on the QTR driver to do this. Then it would be just command-i and print.

sanking said:
OK, I made a print with Clay's QTR profile. Great first print. Very exciting to be able to go directly from the screen to a print just by inverting the negative and choosing a profile.

For economy and easy of processing for the first print I used vandyke, which has a similar ES to pure palladium. I got excellent tonal range, all the way from the shadows to the highlights, and the mid-tones look snappy also. Used the Weston prachement paper.

This is good news for me since, as I mentioned in another thread, I have a fairly large amount of custom cut PhotoWarehouse OHP that works fine iwth the UC ink set of the 2200. So this, plus the stampeding bulls on Wall Street, has really made my day.

Sandy King

sanking · Jul 12, 2007

Clay,

I forgot to mention that I used the Photowarehouse OHP for the negative. This could explain the difference in Dmax. When printing with the green color on the 2200 there was no difference in Dmax between this OHP and Pictorico, but it could be a color specific issue. I did find a big difference in printing density between the Photowarehouse OHP and Pictorico with the HP 9180. In any event, I will print out a tonal scale on Pictorico and see if there is a difference.

Yes, it would be nice to have a mirror box in the QTR print dialog box.

Sandy

sanking · Jul 12, 2007

Bruce,

I have never had a problem with the Photowarehouse Ultrafine OHP feeding into the 2200. Just make sure to feed it into the printer with the tape facing down. The printer needs to feel the edge of the film and the tape helps a lot.

Course, if your material has taken on a lot of curl I could see that there could be a problem. In that even, I would advise taping it to a thin piece of mylar. Just use a very thin tape (red lithorgrahers tape works fine) and attach tape on the bottom on the two bottom sides. I have done this a couple of times with very large sheets of Ultrafine and it worked fine.

Sandy King

BruceRC said:
Sandy

Is the PhotoWarehouse OHP the same thing as their Ultrafine Injet Clear Film Transparancy material?

When I tried it (Ultrafine Injet Clear Film Transparancy) before it curled badly in the Epson 2200 printer and almost destoyed my printer.

How do you send it though you Epson 2200? Do you feed it from the top or back of the printer? Do you tape it down to a piece of paper to get rid of the curl? If you tape it how do you do it?

I would like to use the Ultrafine material for some gum negatives but I sure dont want to damage my printer again.

Any guidance woudd be appreciated.

Thanks!!

Bruce

sanking · Jul 12, 2007

Clay,

When I printed a 100 tonal step wedge on Pictorico with your Pd profile I got a measured UV density of 2.80 at Step 0. That is a little less than your 2.97, but close enough now so that the cause for the difference could very well be a difference in densitometer reading.

In order to get the same density on the Ultrafine OHP I had to increase Ink Density by +20% (or whatever the 20 stands for).

Sandy

clay · Jul 12, 2007

That's pretty interesting. I'll have to ponder why that might happen. You think the photowarehouse ohp might be absorbing the ink in a slightly different way?

BTW, do you get about a .15 UV density for the straight pictorico? (not the ultra!) Have you measured the base density of the photowarehouse film?

sanking said:
Clay,

When I printed a 100 tonal step wedge on Pictorico with your Pd profile I got a measured UV density of 2.80 at Step 0. That is a little less than your 2.97, but close enough now so that the cause for the difference could very well be a difference in densitometer reading.

In order to get the same density on the Ultrafine OHP I had to increase Ink Density by +20% (or whatever the 20 stands for).

Sandy

sanking · Jul 13, 2007

clay said:
That's pretty interesting. I'll have to ponder why that might happen. You think the photowarehouse ohp might be absorbing the ink in a slightly different way?

BTW, do you get about a .15 UV density for the straight pictorico? (not the ultra!) Have you measured the base density of the photowarehouse film?

I am reading a base density of .18 UV with Pictorico. The Photowarehouse OHP measures about 0.6 UV. I may need to calibrate my densitometer. It has been a very long time since I did.

Really no idea why the difference in readings between these two materials. It is not something I would have expected, but it seems to be true with several printers, not just the 2200. As I mentioned, it also happens with the HP 9180, and with the Epson 3800 as well. The mechanism of the way ink is deposited is certainly different. It sits (not absorbed at all) on the ceramic surface of Pictorico, but is absorbed slightly by the size (gelatin?) of the Photowarehouse OHP.

Sandy

QTR profile for Epson 2200 and pure Pd

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